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 Post subject: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:30 am
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Location: AURORA, ON, CA
Does anyone know of a receiver or preamp brand, other than Yamaha, which can transmit DSD signals in their native form over HDMI? I recently decided to downgrade (yes, this is not a typo) to an older Yamaha receiver model because the newer models have lost this capability. Does any audio manufacturer still include this feature in their product?


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:43 pm
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Not trying to divert the question, but trying to understand what you want...
Why do you need the receiver to transmit DSD over HDMI? Do you not want the receiver to receive DSD over HDMI and then off to the speakers? Or do you have a box between your receiver and TV that you're trying to get the DSD signal to?


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:28 pm 
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many DSD via hdmi are downgraded to dolby digital then sent via hdmi
not many processor can decode DSD specially 5.1


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Location: AURORA, ON, CA
Hi. You are quite right - I meant to say a receiver that can receive (not transmit) a DSD signal over HDMI.


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:53 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
This is a good question. IIRC, alot of the recievers that accept DSD over HDMI actually don't have DACs which support DSD, rather a DSD to PCM conversion happens. That is, in my opinion bad. The easiest fix for good DSD to PCM is DSF files converted to FLAC via Weiss Saracon taking the processing out of your receiver since you don't know what's actually going on with the conversion process there.


I've heard the latest Onkyo and Pioneers (and most likely the higher end sonys) contain DSD DACs. Your best bet is to look up the specs of the DAC chips used and see if they natively support DSD to get an idea if they most likely won't default to a DSD to PCM conversion.


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:03 pm
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
Sony STRDN1080


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:29 pm
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Location: Orleans, ON, CA
My older Onkyo PR-SC886 pre/pro and Pioneer VSX-1029AH-K receiver have been happily accepting DSD over HDMI since the day I got them. Since they both sound incredibly fantastic to me when they are doing so, I don't really care what's happening inside them. And for what it's worth, I hear no difference when I set my players to do a DSD to PCM conversion before sending the signal via HDMI, rather than sending the native DSD. Ignorance is bliss!

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:07 am 
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I recently re-entered the world of home theatre with a Pioneer VSX-1131 receiver. It does DSD so I tried my small collection of SACDs using a Sony BDP-S6700 (which plays DSD/SACDs) via HDMI cable. The sound output is shown as DSD and the overall sound is better than I remember. So yes, there are av receivers that play DSD. I just wish I had a universal player--with an HDMI output--to include my DVD-A collection.


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:15 am 
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Location: St. Catharines, ON, CA
OP most of the higher-end Denon and Onkyo AVRs still do direct DSD > analog conversion.

zon001 wrote:
many DSD via hdmi are downgraded to dolby digital then sent via hdmi
not many processor can decode DSD specially 5.1


I don't know of a single player that does this, do you know one off hand?

You either get DSD natively over HDMI or you get PCM. DD would be a disastrous result.

-- 03 Dec 2018 14:27 --

EveDoesAudioThings wrote:
This is a good question. IIRC, alot of the recievers that accept DSD over HDMI actually don't have DACs which support DSD, rather a DSD to PCM conversion happens. That is, in my opinion bad. The easiest fix for good DSD to PCM is DSF files converted to FLAC via Weiss Saracon taking the processing out of your receiver since you don't know what's actually going on with the conversion process there.


I've heard the latest Onkyo and Pioneers (and most likely the higher end sonys) contain DSD DACs. Your best bet is to look up the specs of the DAC chips used and see if they natively support DSD to get an idea if they most likely won't default to a DSD to PCM conversion.


OP this is an important point, there are several AVRs that handshake with DSD and convert to PCM regardless of what listening mode you're in, but the manuals these days are pretty good at specifying whether they do only a conversion or also allow native DSD > analog in the AVR.

As mentioned in my previous post, the top couple Denon and Onkyo models last time I checked do allow for native DSD > analog conversion with no PCM decimation in the AVR.


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:06 pm
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Location: hawkesbury, ON, CA
pioneer was the first I think to streem dsd via hdmi, and read it was converting to dd before sending it to hdmi.
hopefully the industry found a better way to do it, me I still listen to my dsd multi channel via analogue 5.1 from my oppo player.


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:46 pm
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Location: York, ON, CA
I don't believe the newer Yamaha models have lost the ability to accept DSD over HDMI, this model still appears to;

https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/audio ... oduct-tabs

I have the 2016 model of this same AVR and it works just fine with my Sony UBP-X800. Although it looks like the DAC in this unit does DSD to PCM conversion as another user pointed out, for me this is not a problem.

http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/pro ... abre9006a/


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:22 am 
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Location: Orleans, ON, CA
McBru wrote:
I recently re-entered the world of home theatre with a Pioneer VSX-1131 receiver. It does DSD so I tried my small collection of SACDs using a Sony BDP-S6700 (which plays DSD/SACDs) via HDMI cable. The sound output is shown as DSD and the overall sound is better than I remember. So yes, there are av receivers that play DSD. I just wish I had a universal player--with an HDMI output--to include my DVD-A collection.


Keep an eye out for sales on the Sony UBP-X800. It's nearing the end of its run. It makes an excellent universal transport via HDMI. I bought two of them a year ago this month.

Contrary to the owner's manual I've found it streams DSD. One notable limitation however: it will not play DVD-A-R discs. For those I've kept two Oppo DV-980H.

Jeff

ps. I'm far from being a Sony fanboy, having been pissed off on many occasions by their lack of support (firmware upgrades and replacement parts) after but a few years of a model's introduction. However with the X800 I have to give credit where credit is due. Great value if you can get one for less than $200C.

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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:45 am 
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:05 am
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
Important question here is:
Dsd 2.0 or multichannel ?
Many receivers only support 2.0 (eg Marantz).

A notable outlier in the field is Sony 1080.
It has exceptional ability to play 5.1 DSD files from USB stick.
No hdmi, no player required.
Besides...it is all native DSD with dsd specific filtration in the analogue stage past the dac...
This receiver converts all formats to DSD (which is really technically not a big deal) therefore needs only a dsd specific filter.


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:14 pm
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Location: St. Catharines, ON, CA
I’ve never had a receiver that only supported DSD stereo nor have I had one that converts other formats to DSD.


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 Post subject: Re: DSD over HDMI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:11 am
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Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
Axel4 wrote:
Sony STRDN1080



Yep the Sony STRDN1080 4K Dolby Atmos 7.1 receiver supports DSD over HDMI.


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