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 Post subject: Recap before selling?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:41 am
Posts: 295
Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Hello,
I have some Krell power amp want to sell. People keep asking if the amp had been recap. So my question is, will you recap before selling or just lower the price hope for faster sell?

Also, I noticed people really lowball these days here. Will it be better off to sell on eBay or audiogon?

thanks ahead
Vic


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:25 pm
Posts: 931
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
Price is relative.

Price is dependent on the marketplace. Marketplace includes many factors including social economical ones.
In otherwords, the "price here" may be different that the price "there". In addition, what are you basing "low ball" on? Price is what someone is willing to pay - period. Perhaps your opinion of "low ball" is really the "right ball" and your assessment of the unit is off.

I continually laugh at this. Many people believe their equipment is worth more than perhaps it really is.

Don't base value on other marketplaces. Ebay is a different marketplace, and - not all that it seems.
1) Are you looking at "sale price" or asking price?
2) Are you aware that the "selling price" on Ebay is inflated*? (I will explain in a moment).
3) Are you factoring in shipping, selling fees of 10%? (yes, 10%). $3000 on Ebay is $300 USD to them; listing on Ebay.ca is pointless
4) Are you willing to ship and be responsible for damages or other "shenanigans"?

*Back to the point that Ebay is "not all that it seems". My last 4 sales on Ebay have reflected incorrect selling prices. Yup. My sale price on Ebay reflected the original asking price not my real sale price. I discovered this by "googling" my auction after a sale from general search engines; Ebay is inflating sale prices to drive up prices, but - you never really "get" what they are saying the auction closed at...Very sneaky, but true!

Audiogon market is in many ways the same as some of the points listed above, I cannot comment on the accuracy of their prices like I can about my recent Ebay finds; however, your risks are all the same.

Now, back to your question about recap.
Krell's run hot. Your Krell may be older, AND; despite (perhaps) working well - subject to the same laws of nature as other amps. Capacitors have a shelf life and it is decreased when the atmosphere includes one of heat. The "value" of your amp is affected by this.

Recap's are not cheap. Expect a few hundred at MINIMUM. You do the math,...

Perhaps reset your opinion about price. The audio market has been soft now for the better part of 8 months.

You have a "good amp". Keep it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:41 am
Posts: 295
Location: Calgary, AB, CA
JGP wrote:
Price is relative.


For example 35% of the asking price?

I always do my homework before listing, I check what people perviously selling for before selling my gear. I never ask more than market value.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:44 pm
Posts: 239
Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Hi Vic,. I have dealt with you and you are very fair. I belive an offer of 35%, is a waste of time and definitely a low ball offer.

Krell is tricky because the amp also needs to be rebiaised after the recap but 35% is pretty low

Simon


Last edited by simonml on Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:49 am 
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Posts: 1950
Location: Fairport Beach (in Pickering), ON, CA
That amp shouldn't need to be re-capped. If the amp is fairly priced in comparison to eBay and Audiogon you've got some tire kickers at the curb.

I've bought and sold lots of stuff on eBay, I've never noticed them changing a sold price. Considering your selling fees are based on the sold price, accounting would get rather complicated and surely they would be investigated for fraud because your selling fees would change.

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Collecting vintage tube Pilot (Pilotone) HiFi gear.


Last edited by Tom_r on Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:29 pm
Posts: 685
Location: SW, ON, CA
I'm not sure if the OP's question deals with the selling price specifically or the bigger question of refurbishing the amp before selling. Over the years of collecting all types of gear, I've generally brought the item up to spec by a competent tech (in my opinion) and I've always had some resistance from buyers to pay the price for quality work. Some think they can do it themselves (not really being qualified) and tell the buyer that it has been refurbed. When buying used gear, specifically vintage gear, my preference is to buy it untouched and then I can choose who will do the work and what level of work is being done. When selling gear, my preference is to upgrade the gear (i.e. recapping vintage equipment, replacing know faulty, soon to fail parts) before selling. I'm starting to rethink this position as I look at gear that I plan to sell now. I think I will sell as is and let the buyer choose their own path with a lower initial selling price.
Case in point...I purchased a decent integrated amp recently that was popular in the early eighties. The seller indicated that he had it serviced and recapped and it sounded like new (but indicated a noisy volume pot 'sometimes'). I picked this up for my kid for his uni place. I didn't test it out before giving it to him, but I should have. The unit didn't work properly and one channel had intermittent problems. I felt bad as I know the amp to be one of those really well designed amps that sound very good. It wasn't a bargain by any stretch of the imagination and I paid the asking price. I've now taken it to a great tech who will rebuild the amp from the boards up. I know it will sound like new when it returns but it will cost around 400 bucks for the work.
So I think now, as I sell some of my collection off, I will sell it un-serviced, as is and post a lower asking price rather than trying to assume the buyer doesn't have access to a decent tech or will skimp on a refurb and have a poor experience.

I would like to hear other thoughts on doing things right on a repair/refurb or do just enough to have the unit working when selling.

cheers,

Paul

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 1286
Location: hawkesbury, ON, CA
me I feel it s a matter of dawm if you do , and dawm if you don t.
people here and many other site will use the recappe excuse just to low ball you.
if you say that it s been recapped, then buyer will say it s not original! or it s not well done! or even been told this one, I don t trust anybody but myself when it comes to do a recapping job!

and if not done , then they say I never buy an ...year old amp that as not been recapped???
so like I say dawm if you do or dawm if you don t.
I would tell you . if the amp play as it should, no hum or background noise, leave it as it is, price it right, and try to live with all the excuses that will come up from the buyers.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:09 pm
Posts: 1625
Location: Sherbrooke, QC, CA
JGP wrote:
Price is relative.

Price is dependent on the marketplace. Marketplace includes many factors including social economical ones.
In otherwords, the "price here" may be different that the price "there". In addition, what are you basing "low ball" on? Price is what someone is willing to pay - period. Perhaps your opinion of "low ball" is really the "right ball" and your assessment of the unit is off.

I continually laugh at this. Many people believe their equipment is worth more than perhaps it really is.

Don't base value on other marketplaces. Ebay is a different marketplace, and - not all that it seems.
1) Are you looking at "sale price" or asking price?
2) Are you aware that the "selling price" on Ebay is inflated*? (I will explain in a moment).
3) Are you factoring in shipping, selling fees of 10%? (yes, 10%). $3000 on Ebay is $300 USD to them; listing on Ebay.ca is pointless
4) Are you willing to ship and be responsible for damages or other "shenanigans"?

*Back to the point that Ebay is "not all that it seems". My last 4 sales on Ebay have reflected incorrect selling prices. Yup. My sale price on Ebay reflected the original asking price not my real sale price. I discovered this by "googling" my auction after a sale from general search engines; Ebay is inflating sale prices to drive up prices, but - you never really "get" what they are saying the auction closed at...Very sneaky, but true!

Audiogon market is in many ways the same as some of the points listed above, I cannot comment on the accuracy of their prices like I can about my recent Ebay finds; however, your risks are all the same.

Now, back to your question about recap.
Krell's run hot. Your Krell may be older, AND; despite (perhaps) working well - subject to the same laws of nature as other amps. Capacitors have a shelf life and it is decreased when the atmosphere includes one of heat. The "value" of your amp is affected by this.

Recap's are not cheap. Expect a few hundred at MINIMUM. You do the math,...

Perhaps reset your opinion about price. The audio market has been soft now for the better part of 8 months.

You have a "good amp". Keep it.



I like your post, really do. Most people think their equipment is worth a small fortune it seems. I like the hyperbole of ads so often used, you know the mention of "classic" or "legendary" or somehow that the model one has for sale was the stellar product from some underrated maker. Also love the ads that include words to the effect "brand new, only opened to check content".

IMHO Class A makes for a good space heater and boils caps to death. I will stick to a/b and the old tube amp I have on hand and keep installing new tubes as and when needed.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:25 pm
Posts: 931
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
35% of asking may or may not be a lowball.

If you are 25% too high for example!

Be careful with believing that ASKING prices actually constitute market value. They do not.

Have you called those that listed their Krell on Canuck to find out how much they REALLY got? What about Ebay or Audiogon? If not, you really can never be sure!

I feel your pain. I do.

I've had plenty of nice pieces that (in my opinion) sold lower than they should have, but - it just meant one of two things.

1) it was not worth what I thought it was, despite my experience.
2) the right buyer was not in the market when i went to sell it.

Either way, sometimes you need to just move on.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:19 pm
Posts: 432
Location: Eastern Passage, NS, CA
JGP wrote:
Price is relative.

Price is dependent on the marketplace. Marketplace includes many factors including social economical ones.
In otherwords, the "price here" may be different that the price "there". In addition, what are you basing "low ball" on? Price is what someone is willing to pay - period. Perhaps your opinion of "low ball" is really the "right ball" and your assessment of the unit is off.

I continually laugh at this. Many people believe their equipment is worth more than perhaps it really is.

Don't base value on other marketplaces. Ebay is a different marketplace, and - not all that it seems.
1) Are you looking at "sale price" or asking price?
2) Are you aware that the "selling price" on Ebay is inflated*? (I will explain in a moment).
3) Are you factoring in shipping, selling fees of 10%? (yes, 10%). $3000 on Ebay is $300 USD to them; listing on Ebay.ca is pointless
4) Are you willing to ship and be responsible for damages or other "shenanigans"?

*Back to the point that Ebay is "not all that it seems". My last 4 sales on Ebay have reflected incorrect selling prices. Yup. My sale price on Ebay reflected the original asking price not my real sale price. I discovered this by "googling" my auction after a sale from general search engines; Ebay is inflating sale prices to drive up prices, but - you never really "get" what they are saying the auction closed at...Very sneaky, but true!

Audiogon market is in many ways the same as some of the points listed above, I cannot comment on the accuracy of their prices like I can about my recent Ebay finds; however, your risks are all the same.

Now, back to your question about recap.
Krell's run hot. Your Krell may be older, AND; despite (perhaps) working well - subject to the same laws of nature as other amps. Capacitors have a shelf life and it is decreased when the atmosphere includes one of heat. The "value" of your amp is affected by this.

Recap's are not cheap. Expect a few hundred at MINIMUM. You do the math,...

Perhaps reset your opinion about price. The audio market has been soft now for the better part of 8 months.

You have a "good amp". Keep it.


Excellent post.

_________________
A force de contempler la mer, on fini un jour par la prendre.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:20 pm
Posts: 438
Location: Delta, BC, CA
I will take a unit in to make sure it is working 100% if it has any moving parts, and if any repairs are needed according to the Techie, I will do them, but if the unit is sounding great, and has no moving parts, than no, you will never recover you money.. just make sure in your ad you state that the unit may or may not require capping, though at this time it sounds excellent... let the buyer decide, if they start with the whine an snivel about it should be recapped and they have to lower their offer, than tell them, nice talking to you.. moving on...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:19 am 
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Posts: 803
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
Who's doing the recap?
Does it need a recap?
What Krell?

G


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:41 am 
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Location: hawkesbury, ON, CA
Tutone wrote:
I will take a unit in to make sure it is working 100% if it has any moving parts, and if any repairs are needed according to the Techie, I will do them, but if the unit is sounding great, and has no moving parts, than no, you will never recover you money.. just make sure in your ad you state that the unit may or may not require capping, though at this time it sounds excellent... let the buyer decide, if they start with the whine an snivel about it should be recapped and they have to lower their offer, than tell them, nice talking to you.. moving on...

+1 to this post


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:48 am 
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This is now and for the the next 10-20 years going to be a 'debatable' question....
The market is not yet fully evolved into one where a re-capped piece will be more sought after than a non recapped. I think we are on the bubble. Lots of good but aging equipment already in need will in another 5-10 years be rendered either dead, or recapped out of necessity.
I would offer it as is if its working well. But no need to discount it crazy... There is another buyer coming, you have to be patient. Rcapping to me is for something you want to keep for a time yet, I'd rather read an ad saying 'recapped 2 years ago' than just readied for sale with a value out of market as it hasn't proven its self as 'working well'.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:18 am 
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Krells are known to be higher-maintenance units. So the question regarding rebuilt or not is valid. If the unit(s) sound good and have no known issues, then don't rebuild them; you will never get that money back.

When I choose to sell something I choose a price that I am willing to let it go for, then stick to it. If it doesn't sell, I am OK with it. If you need to sell the unit, different story.

And when I list something, I forget about it. If it takes 3 months to find the right buyer so be it. If it sells tomorrow I don't sweat that I priced it too low; remember I had already made the decision regarding price, etc.

Buying and selling audio equipment is not a good business model to make a living. Those who do are often driven to do less-than-honest things to make the sale...in order to pay bills etc. That is why I prefer to buy from enthusiasts versus flippers. Every time. That is only my opinion and not meant to reflect on all buyer/sellers here.

Decide what price you can part with your Krells. If there are any issues, decide whether to sell "as is" and advise the prospective buyer, or fix the issue and sell it accordingly. Be prepared to hold onto the item if the market is not interested, or be prepared to live with the fact you might have made a few more bucks if it sells tomorrow.

Oh ya, on my ads I specifically advise the price is fair and firm; no lowball offers considered. Then ignore the lowball responses. They either did not read your ad (flippers) or they chose to disrespect you and ignore your wishes. Either way they don't deserve your time or effort.

Best of luck with your Krells!!


Last edited by brownslane on Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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