Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
It is currently Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:47 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:57 pm
Posts: 21
Location: ottawa, ON, CA
Hi all!
Just a questions concerning my recent purchase of a new pair of Elac AF-61..
Last August I placed an order with a dealer (sam Kurry) in Laval (Montréal) for a pair of Elac AS-61 ($5059 with taxes)
After many delays, I finally drove 2 hours (up and down) to pick them up at his house (he seems to operate from his garage)
When arriving home, being a sound engineering graduate, I inspected the 2 towers.
To my dismay, when you push gently on the upper passive radiator (there are 3) the coax (mid/tweeter) acted as a port!!!,
air actually coming out of the assembly, WOW (have a video, will post soon)
So I contacted Elac (USA), to find out what is the problem. after many discussions with Elac and the dealer, the dealer wanted to charge me $2527 to bring in a new tower, and then I must drive another 4 hours (not to mention renting a vehicle to bring this large box)
Eventually they dropped the $2527 fee, but still much grief to get a working pair, so I tried to get a refund, but to no avail.

So my question: being that these boxes are made in China, do you all think it s a quality control problem?, and anybody else encountered this defect ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:07 am
Posts: 300
Location: Repentigny, QC, CA
Err, stitched up?

I'm in Qc, and any so-called dealer operating 'out of his garage' to sell $5000+ speakers, I'd not use. No, am not trying to be a wise-ar%e, or score points. Possibly you are doing others on CAM a favour in publishing this alert.

You've listened to them?; they are definitely f'd? I assume that they must be.

I hope you paid for these on a credit card. If so, use the might of VISA or M'card.
You are within your rights to get a full refund, but it seems court action (or threat of) will be necessary otherwise. There is a cheap/ easy way to claim for 'small' amounts in Qc.

_________________
Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live. Norman Cousins


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:57 pm
Posts: 21
Location: ottawa, ON, CA
Hi
unfortunately, he deals only in cash (maybe money transfer)
anf , no did not listen to them, brought them home unsealed.
Not sure they sound bad, just that a coax driver with air (bass port!), has to be bad news, so not using them,,,so buyer beware, do check your Elacs before bringing them home!
take care
dan


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:19 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Rimouski, QC, CA
I have a pair of AF-61 for 3 months now and I’m very happy with them.
Never heard a problem like yours. When I go home friday I will check mine and I will let you know.
I think there’s a small piece of wood that seal the chamber of the midrange from the chamber of the woofer. Maybe it went off.


Attachments:
DAB350D9-4262-4F26-8DA4-49C93B8AAC19.jpeg
DAB350D9-4262-4F26-8DA4-49C93B8AAC19.jpeg [ 157.35 KiB | Viewed 1253 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:37 pm 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 1411
Location: Kelowna, BC, CA
Interested in the video of this defect. Please post :shock:

_________________
"Im...a rather simple person with a limited talent and perhaps a limited perspective" - Bill Evans

Ariston RD11 Superieur, RB250 & Tecnoweight, DV20X2H, LCR MkIII, Dacmagic100, Exposure 2010S2, AS Statement SEs, AS Testaments, PSB GT1s


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:57 pm
Posts: 21
Location: ottawa, ON, CA
it s a mp4, site will not let me download, can sent it to you tru your email?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:57 pm
Posts: 21
Location: ottawa, ON, CA
Hi Shawnwes here, as requested is a short video, that demonstrate the defect unit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRIHbsI ... e=youtu.be

don't know if this will eventually destroy the coax?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:33 pm 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:44 pm
Posts: 6680
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Dead link.

_________________
I Put A Spell On You!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:54 am 
Offline
Dealer/Sponsor

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:33 am
Posts: 1971
Location: Kingston, ON, CA
mtqpier wrote:
I have a pair of AF-61 for 3 months now and I’m very happy with them.
Never heard a problem like yours. When I go home friday I will check mine and I will let you know.
I think there’s a small piece of wood that seal the chamber of the midrange from the chamber of the woofer. Maybe it went off.



If it is a slight gluing issue, or similar, either the wood cover sheet, or around the wires...then this is a simple $100 or less repair job. A job to seal it back up again. If it is more complex, like fixing one of the inner chamber cavity seals around the periphery of the joins... then it's still not all that much more complex. Just needs a competent tech at the helm of the look-see and repair/re-seal.

Maybe $150, who knows.

For me, I'd of taken the drivers out, found the problem, resealed the boxes with the right sealant (inspect box interiors first for clues), and been off the races again inside of a single afternoon. all effort, just about zero coin spent. Maybe $20 expense for the drive to Canadian tire, and the rest ...involving time and effort.

I don't see this as a big deal, personally. :) It is most certainly a problem that might erupt over time due to a minimally correct aspect in the first place, a situation that finally 'let go'... or it might show up before it left the facility, ie, it was missed. Either way, it does not look like a big thing to the average home carpenter/builder, meaning someone who has handled a caulking gun or a table saw a few times or more.

Knowing how the box works or is built internally, makes the issue...pretty well self explanatory and a non-panic scenario, as a fix may be quite close in time and minimal in costs.

I don't really know, as I'm not there myself, but this is my particular 'remote view' take on what is presented.

Image

First place I would check is the seal around the upper driver's wires that go through the upper chamber wall. this sort of seal around wires, in sealed box configurations has ALWAYS been a difficult thing to make perfect. It has possibly been broken loose by time and vibration or some curious individual not taking enough care when they looked inside the box to see what they could see. Manufactures quite properly make wire leads in high end speaker boxes as short as possible, not due to costs and trying to save a buck...but due to doing things 'right', sound quality wise. Anyone pulling the drivers out to look around inside, might have broke the seal around the wires loose. Easy to do, but it is not all that obvious as to the importance of that seal. Most people are used to ported boxes, where tweeters are self sealed and the rest is open and unsealed.

The seals break as the wire has a flexible sheathing of a plastic of some sort. Depending on the quality and nature of that plastic sheathing, it may be impossible to create long lasting permanent seals around said wire. A curious person could yank on the wires a bit and never really know what they've done.

when done correctly, at the perfectionist level, the wire leads for the drivers should be long enough to reach the terminals and disconnect the driver from said leads, but not one centimeter more. Which means ---short. This is audio engineering with audio as the arbiter in how things are done, not electronics/'milspec' build thinking where plenty of extra lead length is normally given. Unless one is familiar with high end audio aims and results, an extremely short lead wire set...is almost ...unexpected.

After that, look for a chamber leak around the joins of the box walls and faceplate, etc.

a second look:

Image

Personally, I would have cut those leads even shorter. The cabinet might need internal repair, regarding the seals, but if the speaker operates at all, I personally don't things things are too far gone to deal with. It comes down that 'competent tech' angle. For me, I would not even put the crossover inside the box. Too much motor induced noise/distortion.

That upper chamber access panel might have a seal issue. Presuming that part/area is designed similarly in the floor-stander, that could be the problem right there. Whatever it is, it is apparently an internal seal quality issue of some sort.

_________________
(Ken Hotte, of) Teo Audio


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:57 pm
Posts: 21
Location: ottawa, ON, CA
Hi, now links seems to be operational (at my end it is)
As for the repairs, I agree could be an easy fix, yet it came like that new, any attempts to fix would probably void warranty?

How many persons would have even caught that?

I send a video to Elac, and best they can do is replaced the tower (ok that makes sense), although at one point was trying for a refund,, but the dealer refused.
So just can't bring myself to drive 4 hours, rent a vehicle, gaz, and a friend for the exchange, and who knows, just might get another dud?!
So in the future.. no cash sales, see the product, get a serious dealer and hope to buy local!

Have others checked their Elac Af/As 61 for defects?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:37 pm
Posts: 3263
Location: London, ON, CA
danroy wrote:
Hi Shawnwes here, as requested is a short video, that demonstrate the defect unit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRIHbsI ... e=youtu.be

don't know if this will eventually destroy the coax?

Still not working.
Attachment:
Dead Link.png
Dead Link.png [ 89.78 KiB | Viewed 731 times ]

Are you sure this person is an official dealer?
https://www.elac.com/dealers-distributors/

Ohms

_________________
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ----Mark Twain

www.leohl.ca


Last edited by AudiOhm on Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:57 pm
Posts: 21
Location: ottawa, ON, CA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRIHbsI3IjY
try this


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:37 pm
Posts: 3263
Location: London, ON, CA
danroy wrote:

Nope.

Ohms

_________________
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ----Mark Twain

www.leohl.ca


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:07 am
Posts: 300
Location: Repentigny, QC, CA
@Ken of Teo Audio
It's true that not all users would even notice the defect, if as described. However.
You don't seriously mean the OP to do repairs? even if he were a tech (wrty issue as another points out). He's spent over five large.

I know all that is built can be un-built or repaired, but it's not wise here.

Am assuming now that he will get his new speaker (not a set?), in the end, and be ok.
@ OP, pls report back...

_________________
Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live. Norman Cousins


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DEFECTIVE ELAC AF-61
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:37 pm
Posts: 3263
Location: London, ON, CA
https://photofocus.com/2014/01/08/how-to-post-your-video-to-youtube/
Did you post your video as a public link?
Under 7. Choose Privacy settings.

Ohms

_________________
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ----Mark Twain

www.leohl.ca


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group