Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
It is currently Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:32 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 614
Location: scarborough, ON, CA
I have heard different opinions of this device and how effective it is.
I read a post on audiogon that stated a uni pivot arm doesn't really work well on the test record.
Experiences?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1387
Location: Milton, ON, CA
No experience with the foz but I had a unipivot for a lot of years and it worked very well. There is one gentleman on audiogon that hold himself up to be the worlds foremost expert on all things Audio, his name is Raul. He has an irrational hatred of unipivots and never passes up a chance to bash them. I would take anything he says with a huge grain of salt as he tends to speak in absolutes and doesn't make a lot of sense most of the time.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:31 pm 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 1414
Location: Kelowna, BC, CA
Could be less need for it on a unipivot.

_________________
"Im...a rather simple person with a limited talent and perhaps a limited perspective" - Bill Evans

Ariston RD11 Superieur, RB250 & Tecnoweight, DV20X2H, LCR MkIII, Dacmagic100, Exposure 2010S2, AS Statement SEs, AS Testaments, PSB GT1s


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:26 pm
Posts: 438
Location: Woodbridge, ON, CA
My uni pivot is adjusted for azimuth by turning the second counterweight on the end of arm.
The setting is then checked visually, unless you have another method.
I can only imagine this alone is nowhere near accurate as it could be, but only as good as your eye.
So yes the Foz would work.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:41 pm 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 1414
Location: Kelowna, BC, CA
I think Michael Fremer did a review of it on Analog Planet if you're interested in reading about it.

_________________
"Im...a rather simple person with a limited talent and perhaps a limited perspective" - Bill Evans

Ariston RD11 Superieur, RB250 & Tecnoweight, DV20X2H, LCR MkIII, Dacmagic100, Exposure 2010S2, AS Statement SEs, AS Testaments, PSB GT1s


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:21 am 
Offline
Dealer/Sponsor

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:40 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Dartmouth, NS, CA
The Fozgometer does its best work with Uni Pivot arms. It shows you your output from each channel. You then turn your counterweight to get the 2 numbers as close as possible. If your cartridge is within it manufacturers spec's no problem. IF the 2 channel's are not in spec and too far apart your cartridge will be leaning quite a bit to one side to get the numbers equal. This as you can imagine causes a host of other problems.

_________________
Brooklyn Audio Inc.
47 Bow St
Dartmouth , N.S.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:49 am
Posts: 1937
Location: Fairport Beach (in Pickering), ON, CA
nickthecanuck wrote:
My uni pivot is adjusted for azimuth by turning the second counterweight on the end of arm.
The setting is then checked visually, unless you have another method.
I can only imagine this alone is nowhere near accurate as it could be, but only as good as your eye.
So yes the Foz would work.


To adjust the azimuth and VTA on my unipivot I place a tiny bubble level on the headshell. I suppose one could also use a test record and SPL meter to adjust azimuth.

_________________
Tom

Collecting vintage tube Pilot (Pilotone) HiFi gear.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:26 pm
Posts: 438
Location: Woodbridge, ON, CA
My understanding, Tom_r your idea with the bubble level is as good or better than a visual check, but
There is no way to know if the stylus or cantilever is set exactly during manufacturing.

I will say Floyd is correct, I agree the Fozgometer the better method.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 614
Location: scarborough, ON, CA
I agree the visual/using a level method may not be accurate. You would be relying on the phono cart, cantilever and stylus to be in perfect alignment.
I have also done the adjusting using the counter weight etc. I'm just looking for a finer, more accurate adjustment.
I was hoping to hear from those that had used the fozgometer and test record with the uni pivot arm and their experiences.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:39 am 
Offline
Dealer/Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:31 am
Posts: 2017
Location: Freelton, ON, CA
setting azimuth by eye assumes that the stylus is set onto the cantilever accurately. most are not, no matter what the cartridge cost.
the fozgometer gets you into the ballpark with a very primitive measurement.

for a very accurate and repeatable measurement, the analogmagik software is the best tool that i have found.

https://www.analogmagik.com/

here's the video on azimuth specifically:
https://www.analogmagik.com/azimuth

_________________
http://www.corbysaudio.com
info@corbyframing.ca
toll free 1-877-689-1976
local 905-689-1976
Kuzma, Clearaudio, Rega, Music Hall, Charisma, Haniwa, Audiodesk, Acoustic Signature, Reed, Cardas, Dynavector, Benz micro, Harmonix, Allnic, Ortofon
BBIC


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:43 am 
Offline
Dealer/Sponsor

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:40 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Dartmouth, NS, CA
I have used one and I gave my experience above .


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 2823
Location: GTA, ON, CA
I have used the Foz with Uni-pivot tonearms with excellent results.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:18 pm
Posts: 712
Location: Thornhill, ON, CA
One would hope that with the microscopic tolerances of stylii, care is taken to ensure the cantilever and the stylus are aligned with regard to azimuth using some standard measurement. Perhaps even a pre-adjusted tonearm is utilized to test tolerances at the time of production. After all, I see a measurement for frequency response and one for l/r balance tolerance with the literature on my particular cartridge.

I can't possibly imagine these things are guessed or judged by the naked eye. Every step has calibration that aligns with the next step.

If such quality control exists, and assuming cantilevers do not twist or rotate in normal use therefore the bubble level should be a "reasonable" measurement for azimuth. A Fozgometer is an alternative if verification is needed, and the last approach described using software perhaps the most current tech applied to perform the task without ever requiring further verification.

I have the tiny bubble level and use the VPI protractor and the mirror to ensure cantilever alignment wrt cart. It would be a fun exercise to take it to the next level I guess.

Foz, as in Fosgate, Rockford who provided the upgraded hifi in the Mitsu Evo cars. They were a big name in LOUD car audio when I was in high school early 80's. I had a Concorde system and the amp could burn the passengers ankle in the foot well but I digress. LOL

_________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------'
No matter how much water you can soak up with a sponge, you can always break a window with a hammer!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:39 am
Posts: 39
Location: North Bay, ON, CA
scarbpaul12 wrote:
I have heard different opinions of this device and how effective it is.
I read a post on audiogon that stated a uni pivot arm doesn't really work well on the test record.
Experiences?



I owned a Fozgometer for many years and used it successfully on a VPI uni-pivot and then later with a bearing tonearm without any issues. You need to consider whether you want to measure directly from the output of your turntable or after the phono stage. The goal, of course, is to adjust azimuth to get rid of channel imbalance.

With the Fozgometer the dB output strength moves around a bit, as much as 5 to 6 dB from the start to the end of the test tone. You have to keep track of what the initial reading was and whether it moved up or down as the test track was playing. It's a good tool and works well as long as it's calibrated and you have a fresh battery, but it is an analog indication that moves around a bit.

With a uni-pivot tonearm you also need to consider how long it takes the tonearm to settle down into playing position so that the reading is accurate. I used to sometimes cue up the uni-pivot a bit before the test track so that it was "good to go" before the test tone started.

But because of that, the uncertainty aspect of the Fozgometer, I don't use it anymore and sold it some time ago through CAM.

I now use the Dr. Feickert Adjust+ software - it was around the same cost as the Fozgometer and is much easier to use. It does the averaging for you to eventually display the dB value as a fixed number. I found with the Adjust+ I could dial in azimuth with maybe 6 tests or so very accurately while with the Fozgometer it always seemed like a compromise.

Mind you, with the Adjust+ you do need a computer, so there's a bit more to it than with the Fozgometer.

I suspect you will get a lot of opinions that channel imbalance isn't that big a deal and that unless there's something desperately wrong with your cartridge you should be able to tolerate a bit of left/right imbalance or simply tune it out if you have a balance adjustment on your preamp.

I like the more technical aspect of it where I can exactly dial in azimuth to eliminate imbalance - that gives me the comfort of knowing that I'm hearing the music I'm playing the way it was intended; as far as channel separation and strength is concerned. But I wouldn't disagree with anyone who said that it really isn't all that necessary, but I like to do it because I can.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 197
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
I have a Fozgometer and test record, use it on my VPI Classic with very good results.

PM me if you want to work out a loan.

Brian


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: audiobasic2000, jewart, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group