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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
First, I would like to make a major "shout out" (or whatever) to Take Five cables...I've had to source medical grade cables for many years and I wish I could buy from these folks for a number of projects...I've also had to deal with recalcitrant procurement people but I do hope that this comes true one day. Anyway...

I decided to test swapping power cables to my two Emotiva CMX-2 units. I've been using these for at least three years now - basically ever since my neighbours decided my to get Teslas...I've had really bad issues with DC offset on my power ever since which caused a lot of problems for power amp as well as some low power AC units - notably disc player as well as my phono preamp (which uses a "wall wart").

In theory I shouldn't "hear" anything if I swap out power cables...I mean, hey, I'm an engineer (many years in complex high performance systems) who "understands" the math for why cables shouldn't "matter". Yeah...pile o' crap for the the "science" as well as my system...Well, wrong on both counts in so many ways...So I learned, the hard way, that what I (and my friends) hear makes the most difference...Just like ISO 226 embodies.

A while ago replaced the major power cables on my components. I found, after the first one, that this made a significant improvement for my system. Noise floor dropped quite a lot and general dynamics - let's call them "transient reproduction" - improved quite a lot. Sure, I can swallow my "enginerd pride" and accept what I heard. After all, it's an easy test to swap cables and compare given the rest of the chain remained the same. Interestingly enough the digital side had the most improvement - I mean, phono cables obviously have characteristics that match the "math"...

So, swapping out cables for my CMX-2 has resulted in drastically reduced noise floor. And, magically, my iPhono 2 now has no noise for either of the these units - where it previously was "motor boating".

But it's really the change in dynamics and/or transients that is most noticeable. I have swapped between the old and new cables multiple times over the past two weeks and will say that there is a great improvement to my system for these factors. Really a great change - I'm very happy.

Thanks a lot Take Five!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Location: Vaughan, ON, CA
Please let us know which TFA power cable you bought....I think they have different models?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Glad to see that you used your own judgement rather than going by preconceived assumptions.
We can't know everything within our respective fields and even within our areas of specialization there are many unknowns. Sometimes it is by trial and error that we advance our knowledge.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Location: Sault Ste. Marie, ON, CA
+1 Always believe what your ears say not hearsay.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:46 am 
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Interesting as the cable Emotiva supplies with this particular device is no slouch! I doubt I would notice any difference in the noise floor if I changed the cable on my CMX, but as I have quite a bit of noise in my system (hiss generally) I try whatever I can. Nothing has helped so far, I believe my noise to be the nature of my Naim Pre.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Location: Caledonia, ON, CA
Of course the skeptic will argue that you only hear what you want to hear and your brain is just playing tricks. After all you cant actually measure the difference, right?

Well ime a cable believer. And I always test pc's with my mono block power amps. Changing just one cable at a time then balancing back and forth. The sonic variations are many times nothing short of astonishing, where none existed before while employing identical cabling left and right. No need for audio memory, just instantaneous left to right comparison. If even one non believer had access to mono blocks and also the will to perform my test, well I think I could quickly turn skeptics into cable lovers.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:27 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Got Hi-Fi wrote:
Interesting as the cable Emotiva supplies with this particular device is no slouch! I doubt I would notice any difference in the noise floor if I changed the cable on my CMX, but as I have quite a bit of noise in my system (hiss generally) I try whatever I can. Nothing has helped so far, I believe my noise to be the nature of my Naim Pre.


Agreed - they are pretty beefy so it is not about raw current-carrying capacity. One of the reasons I made this upgrade was improve cable routing since I had too much slack with the stock cables so now they are have straight runs to the outlet (which is hospital-grade). The Take Five cables are the "Powerline 12" version.

Comparative listening is obviously pretty easy since it takes less than a minute to swap cables. I tried the permutations and the improvements are very noticeable.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Posts: 551
Location: candiac, QC, CA
fifthbusiness wrote:
First, I would like to make a major "shout out" (or whatever) to Take Five cables...I've had to source medical grade cables for many years and I wish I could buy from these folks for a number of projects...I've also had to deal with recalcitrant procurement people but I do hope that this comes true one day. Anyway...

I decided to test swapping power cables to my two Emotiva CMX-2 units. I've been using these for at least three years now - basically ever since my neighbours decided my to get Teslas...I've had really bad issues with DC offset on my power ever since which caused a lot of problems for power amp as well as some low power AC units - notably disc player as well as my phono preamp (which uses a "wall wart").

In theory I shouldn't "hear" anything if I swap out power cables...I mean, hey, I'm an engineer (many years in complex high performance systems) who "understands" the math for why cables shouldn't "matter". Yeah...pile o' crap for the the "science" as well as my system...Well, wrong on both counts in so many ways...So I learned, the hard way, that what I (and my friends) hear makes the most difference...Just like ISO 226 embodies.

A while ago replaced the major power cables on my components. I found, after the first one, that this made a significant improvement for my system. Noise floor dropped quite a lot and general dynamics - let's call them "transient reproduction" - improved quite a lot. Sure, I can swallow my "enginerd pride" and accept what I heard. After all, it's an easy test to swap cables and compare given the rest of the chain remained the same. Interestingly enough the digital side had the most improvement - I mean, phono cables obviously have characteristics that match the "math"...

So, swapping out cables for my CMX-2 has resulted in drastically reduced noise floor. And, magically, my iPhono 2 now has no noise for either of the these units - where it previously was "motor boating".

But it's really the change in dynamics and/or transients that is most noticeable. I have swapped between the old and new cables multiple times over the past two weeks and will say that there is a great improvement to my system for these factors. Really a great change - I'm very happy.

Thanks a lot Take Five!!!


With large changes reported like that and that you are an engineer in complex high performance system, I can't wait for proper testing where you don't know which cable are playing. They are eye opener but you need to keep an open mind.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
franksmith wrote:

With large changes reported like that and that you are an engineer in complex high performance system, I can't wait for proper testing where you don't know which cable are playing. They are eye opener but you need to keep an open mind.


Hi Frank...My wife and I had friends over last Saturday - while our wives chatted we listened to a lot of music...and switched various cables around including the new ones. Note: my friend and I were originally in the "Cables are woo" camp. We realized the error of our ways a while ago...

So N=2 with regards to the observations. I don't think there is better testing available...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Location: candiac, QC, CA
fifthbusiness wrote:

Hi Frank...My wife and I had friends over last Saturday - while our wives chatted we listened to a lot of music...and switched various cables around including the new ones. Note: my friend and I were originally in the "Cables are woo" camp. We realized the error of our ways a while ago...

So N=2 with regards to the observations. I don't think there is better testing available...


You where switching cable and asking your friend what was the changes without telling him which one was playing ?

It is a very interesting experience. I have done that with many friends over time and the results are always interestings.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:47 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I've found the effect of power cables to vary from component to component; audibly significant bordering on dramatically better or worse in some cases and little to no difference in others. Expensive definitely does not always equate to better.

Because of this I keep a number of different power cables on hand to try for the best match when I switch components.

I realize many do not believe in this and I'm quite OK with that, but I'm definitely a convert from the "cables make no difference" camp. It's too bad that many power cord vendors attribute the differences to ridiculous and often made up theories and charge completely unreasonable prices for their product. They are their own worst enemies IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:33 am
Posts: 1976
Location: Kingston, ON, CA
franksmith wrote:
fifthbusiness wrote:

Hi Frank...My wife and I had friends over last Saturday - while our wives chatted we listened to a lot of music...and switched various cables around including the new ones. Note: my friend and I were originally in the "Cables are woo" camp. We realized the error of our ways a while ago...

So N=2 with regards to the observations. I don't think there is better testing available...


You where switching cable and asking your friend what was the changes without telling him which one was playing ?

It is a very interesting experience. I have done that with many friends over time and the results are always interestings.



The ear is a programmable device, and we program it unconsciously, for the most part. Ie, the cranial convolutions and contortions we go through in filtering and modifying, etc, in an extreme grade FFT method...have no physical adjunct that is visible.

There is no higher level of quality in FFT analysis than the human ear. Period. Fact. Proven.

To add, the ear and the brain attached to it are a variable across the board, so one can be good at it and the next, not so good. Luckily it's a system wired for experience being a teacher (to it). You just have to believe in it and do your best and usually something will happen. It's like all forms of learning, except it's on a different channel and path than what we are used to in our society and culture. Questions and answers that are off on their own. The complexity of the human learning and data sorting system as tied to the unseen acts and actions of the ear-brain system--in the given individual, with 7 billion variations and no two hear the same. You'll get no paper on that, it's a 'how long is a rope?' kinda question.

There is nothing written in stone with the human ear. Engineering promises and desires in dogmatic written and formulated black and white perfection ---all that...by nature, reality and fiat, cannot apply. They apply only as an extra, but not as a principle or core. Support only... not supplant and overrule. Its similar to trying to make psychology a hard science. It isn't. It can't be. Nor can engineering ever apply in that field.

I write this as you seem to be looking for ...something..on this.

Do your homework first. :) Too add, the forum has decided that it will brook no argument in a cable thread where the people involved just want to talk about cables without being attacked from the blue.

Which is only right, isn't it? :)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:49 am 
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 10:04 am
Posts: 234
Location: Saskatoon, SK, CA
last year i had the opportunity to home audition several quality power cables.
crystal piccolo, siltech sx800, wireworld eclipse7, shunyata venom, tfa asylum, zavfino majestic.
the primary test piece was shanling cdt 100.
yes
there are differences,
mostly subtle although the crystal is a distinctly different character.
and
it has been my experience and my opinion, the terminations are very important.
it bugs me to see (IMO) mediocre ends on a five hundred dollar plus power cord.
so
get rid of that dollar store cord that came with
AND
put something decent in the wall too.
spec grade hubbells are not expensive, uhf mag twenty years ago got me started on this.
possibly the most cost-effective upgrade one can very easily accomplish. ((G5 too eh)).
every time i have invested in my AC path, i have been rewarded.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:19 am
Posts: 85
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I've been reading a bunch on power cables. I have dirty power living in the city. People told me a power conditioner was snakeoii, and it was one of the more dramatic upgrades I made. So, I've taken a chance on these from amazon. They get a lot of rave reviews, and like one of the commenters said, it only takes so much effort to make a premium cable. It shouldn't cost a lot to do something right. These get a lot of positive review, so while not. Can always send them back. I bought information my Furman and one for my amp. Will be interested to see it makes a difference.


https://www.amazon.ca/WAudio-Hi-End-Aud ... B01L2MBYWC


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:06 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
JasonGR wrote:
I've been reading a bunch on power cables. I have dirty power living in the city. People told me a power conditioner was snakeoii, and it was one of the more dramatic upgrades I made. So, I've taken a chance on these from amazon. They get a lot of rave reviews, and like one of the commenters said, it only takes so much effort to make a premium cable. It shouldn't cost a lot to do something right. These get a lot of positive review, so while not. Can always send them back. I bought information my Furman and one for my amp. Will be interested to see it makes a difference.


https://www.amazon.ca/WAudio-Hi-End-Aud ... B01L2MBYWC


Power conditioners, and DC blockers are def. not snake oil when you have dirty power, every little bit helps! As for that cable you posted, this is all you need. No nonsense, sane price, and not really any different than half the other cables out there selling for 10X the cost. IMO anything more in a power cable is just throwing your money away.

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