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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:41 am 
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Location: Hatzor Haglilit, , IL
hello site, i have simaudio 250i and i have speaker of cabasse iroise 3 i don't love the sound in amplifier i found the sound is not musical not have emotion, is dry and boring and sometime bright in some songs
i also have dac very simple of Dac Magic 100 Cambride Audio maybe the problem is the dac?

i wonder how those amplifier and if you can also tell me about some dacs very good
Roksan K3
music fidelity m6i


i wait for help
many thanks :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Location: Newmarket, ON, CA
If it were me, the first thing I would do was to ditch the 100 DAC. It sounds like you need a properly designed NOS DAC, which should help achieve the sound your after. I would highly recommend Metrum Acoustics. They have just released a new entry level model, the Flint, I haven't heard this model but based on their other models I have heard, it should help with the sound your after (as long as its limited inputs work for you). The non current Musett is also an excellent option, this one I have heard/owned & its outstanding at its price point. Their MSRP was ~1800 but used are probably around half that if you can find one.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:20 pm 
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daren_p wrote:
If it were me, the first thing I would do was to ditch the 100 DAC. It sounds like you need a properly designed NOS DAC, which should help achieve the sound your after. I would highly recommend Metrum Acoustics. They have just released a new entry level model, the Flint, I haven't heard this model but based on their other models I have heard, it should help with the sound your after (as long as its limited inputs work for you). The non current Musett is also an excellent option, this one I have heard/owned & its outstanding at its price point. Their MSRP was ~1800 but used are probably around half that if you can find one.


dear friend thank you for best answer, is look very nice this dac , this my style i like black with blue and red light, well done friend, tell me friend how this dac compare to the Lab12 Dac 1
the lab 12 have 1 tube , you hear about this dac?
wait for help
many thanks
:)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Location: Parkhill, ON, CA
Hi Ram,
I found the Moon 250i a very good amp, but not to my style. Your evaluation matches mine. It is very precise, but not everyone's taste/sound.

I had the same Moon amp and the Dacmagic 100 together.
I changed my amplification to battery powered hybrid amps.
The DAC was okay, but has since has been replaced.

Maybe look for something in a tube amp?

No affiliation to this and in your neck of the woods. Just sayin'...


https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details ... rated-amp/


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:32 pm 
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tonearmcobra wrote:
Hi Ram,
I found the Moon 250i a very good amp, but not to my style. Your evaluation matches mine. It is very precise, but not everyone's taste/sound.

I had the same Moon amp and the Dacmagic 100 together.
I changed my amplification to battery powered hybrid amps.
The DAC was okay, but has since has been replaced.

Maybe look for something in a tube amp?

No affiliation to this and in your neck of the woods. Just sayin'...


https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details ... rated-amp/


dear friend thank you for resond, amm i am try tube amplifer "manley stingray 1 with lab12 dac1" and was very good score, yes the tubes amplifer very good for my speaker
the amplifer you give in link is hybrid? how much watt this? you can sent me spec for this amp?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:56 am 
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Location: Newmarket, ON, CA
I have not head the Lab 12 DAC's, so I can't tell you how they compare.

Swapping the amp itself may be required/a good idea as has been mentioned, but my thinking is the Simaudio is a good, neutral sounding amp, which will show you exactly what a change to a better/more analog/natural sounding DAC will bring to your system, at that point if it is still not "musical" enough for you, you can look at swapping the amp as well, to add additional "colour". Currently I feel the DAC is the weakest link in your setup, it is a cheaper delta sigma DAC & will have that typical digital sound.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:14 am 
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daren_p wrote:
I have not head the Lab 12 DAC's, so I can't tell you how they compare.

Swapping the amp itself may be required/a good idea as has been mentioned, but my thinking is the Simaudio is a good, neutral sounding amp, which will show you exactly what a change to a better/more analog/natural sounding DAC will bring to your system, at that point if it is still not "musical" enough for you, you can look at swapping the amp as well, to add additional "colour". Currently I feel the DAC is the weakest link in your setup, it is a cheaper delta sigma DAC & will have that typical digital sound.


you are right friend,l feel this dac
Metallic sound
bright
not refined you know what i mean?

the lab12 i read review that is sound like vinyl is very analog sound
did you know more best analog sound that refined with sweet sound and emotion

thank you friend 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:10 am 
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RamiHazan wrote:
daren_p wrote:
I have not head the Lab 12 DAC's, so I can't tell you how they compare.

Swapping the amp itself may be required/a good idea as has been mentioned, but my thinking is the Simaudio is a good, neutral sounding amp, which will show you exactly what a change to a better/more analog/natural sounding DAC will bring to your system, at that point if it is still not "musical" enough for you, you can look at swapping the amp as well, to add additional "colour". Currently I feel the DAC is the weakest link in your setup, it is a cheaper delta sigma DAC & will have that typical digital sound.


you are right friend,l feel this dac
Metallic sound
bright
not refined you know what i mean?

the lab12 i read review that is sound like vinyl is very analog sound
did you know more best analog sound that refined with sweet sound and emotion

thank you friend 8)



Sounding like vinyl/analog is exactly what a good NOS DAC will do, like the lab12 you mention or Metrum Acoustics, both are NOS designs. From Metrum, it looks like the Onyx is about the same price point as the Lab12 DAC you are looking at (at least in CDN $). I currently have the Metrum Menuet which is the DAC $ level the onyx replaced. The Menuet is a terrific DAC, if you want a comparison for a vinly frontend I previously had a Rega RP6, with swagman labs linear power supply, Dual Rega white belts, Groovetracer subplatter, Hanna SL cartridge going to a Simaudio 310LP Neo phono stage (a fairly well regarded setup) & overall I thought the Menuet was a better sounding source vs the vinly setup & actually did some things better, that vinyl should do better then digital. I am still using the same cartridge & phono stage but have switched to the Bryston BLP-1 table & now, give or take I would say both sources are about the same performance level (which I think shows how highly I rate the Metrum DAC)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:58 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I agree with Darren_P, I don’t think it is the amp. I owned that amp and though I didn’t love it, it wasn’t for the reasons you stated. Once I added the Metrum Octave DAC the system sounded so much better. Change out the DAC and I think it will fix your concerns


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:03 am 
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daren_p wrote:
RamiHazan wrote:
daren_p wrote:
I have not head the Lab 12 DAC's, so I can't tell you how they compare.

Swapping the amp itself may be required/a good idea as has been mentioned, but my thinking is the Simaudio is a good, neutral sounding amp, which will show you exactly what a change to a better/more analog/natural sounding DAC will bring to your system, at that point if it is still not "musical" enough for you, you can look at swapping the amp as well, to add additional "colour". Currently I feel the DAC is the weakest link in your setup, it is a cheaper delta sigma DAC & will have that typical digital sound.


you are right friend,l feel this dac
Metallic sound
bright
not refined you know what i mean?

the lab12 i read review that is sound like vinyl is very analog sound
did you know more best analog sound that refined with sweet sound and emotion

thank you friend 8)



Sounding like vinyl/analog is exactly what a good NOS DAC will do, like the lab12 you mention or Metrum Acoustics, both are NOS designs. From Metrum, it looks like the Onyx is about the same price point as the Lab12 DAC you are looking at (at least in CDN $). I currently have the Metrum Menuet which is the DAC $ level the onyx replaced. The Menuet is a terrific DAC, if you want a comparison for a vinly frontend I previously had a Rega RP6, with swagman labs linear power supply, Dual Rega white belts, Groovetracer subplatter, Hanna SL cartridge going to a Simaudio 310LP Neo phono stage (a fairly well regarded setup) & overall I thought the Menuet was a better sounding source vs the vinly setup & actually did some things better, that vinyl should do better then digital. I am still using the same cartridge & phono stage but have switched to the Bryston BLP-1 table & now, give or take I would say both sources are about the same performance level (which I think shows how highly I rate the Metrum DAC)


thank you for information sir ,i see nos dac is dac without a tube inside, beside Lab12 that have 1 tube
if we look on spec
the lab 12 have 24/96 in the usb
and METRUM ACOUSTICS ONYX
have 384Khz
you really think 384 have change that can notice between 96 in usb?
? i play files from pc i wonder to know if better 384 or not notice to change between the 96
wait for help thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:41 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
A NOS dac just simply means it does not oversample the incoming signal and just plays as is. It can have a tube or not , the tube is typically associated with the analogue output of a dac.

If I were you I'd look for not just a NOS dac but also an R2R like a Norma Audio, Mojo Audio and others. If musicalality is what you desire the R2R dacs are incredible.

I currently have the Norma Audio dac in my stable of 4 dacs and it is fantastic. So much so that I'm going to move way up the R2R dac chain, maybe to a Rockna or the likes . The nice thing about the Norma dac and a few others out there is you have the option to oversample or not. I have it running in NOS mode and while not as resolving as one of my other dacs it's a better fit for my amplifier .

Lots of choices out there just don't get hung up on "sample rates".... I have a very very resolving system and I can tell you your far better off to concentrate on the quality of the recording than the sample rate. I have 16/44 recordings that sound better than most of my high resolution recordings for example.

What I have found with Non oversampling R2R dacs like the Norma is that all music becomes listenable , even the recordings that aren't so great. I do have another delta sigma machine here that if you play a high quality high resolution recording on it the sound that happens is so amazing it's hard to believe but it (the dac) on some not so good recordings can present a truth that while not objectionable certainly won't cover up the recordings shortcomings .

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:21 pm 
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ADCO wrote:
A NOS dac just simply means it does not oversample the incoming signal and just plays as is. It can have a tube or not , the tube is typically associated with the analogue output of a dac.

If I were you I'd look for not just a NOS dac but also an R2R like a Norma Audio, Mojo Audio and others. If musicalality is what you desire the R2R dacs are incredible.

I currently have the Norma Audio dac in my stable of 4 dacs and it is fantastic. So much so that I'm going to move way up the R2R dac chain, maybe to a Rockna or the likes . The nice thing about the Norma dac and a few others out there is you have the option to oversample or not. I have it running in NOS mode and while not as resolving as one of my other dacs it's a better fit for my amplifier .

Lots of choices out there just don't get hung up on "sample rates".... I have a very very resolving system and I can tell you your far better off to concentrate on the quality of the recording than the sample rate. I have 16/44 recordings that sound better than most of my high resolution recordings for example.

What I have found with Non oversampling R2R dacs like the Norma is that all music becomes listenable , even the recordings that aren't so great. I do have another delta sigma machine here that if you play a high quality high resolution recording on it the sound that happens is so amazing it's hard to believe but it (the dac) on some not so good recordings can present a truth that while not objectionable certainly won't cover up the recordings shortcomings .

Good luck.



Most of my thoughts as well. As ADCO has mentioned, Metrum are R2R NOS DAC's as well, so you can see there are lots of options (& as he said, some with tubes, some without). For Metrum, I would say to not use the USB input as it won't give you the best quality (use a converter if you must use USB output on your source). The AES/EBU would be the best sounding input followed by digital coax (BNC is better then RCA if you have the option).

Also, exactly as ADCO has said, don't get hung up on sampling rates, many people automatically assume all the "fancy" hi-res formats automatically sound better then your typical CD quality 16/44, this isn't the case. Like any format, it is not automatically better sounding, just because of its format. The mastering, transfer, etc, etc, etc will typically have a larger impact on sound quality.

Also, as a side note, when you mentioned sampling rates, this is just the sampling rate that the DAC is able to accept (ie what source material you feed it), these NOS dac's do not up convert.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:11 pm 
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I switched to actually using the DAC (2) in my Moon 340i (100 watts-non-Neo) for CD playback and I am pretty happy with it. It is paired with a Cambridge CXC transport to great effect. I would say this pairing greatly improved upon what my stand alone Naim CD5i (2) could do.


Last edited by AHarris on Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Having owned the Simaudio 250i, I agree with your observations. I've had the Roksan Kandy as well as the Musical Fidelity. The Kandy doesn't do anything wrong, but it's quite bland. Take a look at Plinius Inspire 880. They are hard to come by, but by far the best integrated I've heard in my system. Its internal DAC sounds really good as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:47 am 
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batonwielder wrote:
Having owned the Simaudio 250i, I agree with your observations. I've had the Roksan Kandy as well as the Musical Fidelity. The Kandy doesn't do anything wrong, but it's quite bland. Take a look at Plinius Inspire 880. They are hard to come by, but by far the best integrated I've heard in my system. Its internal DAC sounds really good as well.


dear friend is only 80watt? my speaker is 150watt,
what you think about that?
and plinius what kind of sound on this, warm or cold? i look for emotion sweet sound


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