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 Post subject: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Location: Waverley, NS, CA
Hi, my PB13 Ultra has been acting up.
Not powering up at all or shutting down while in use.
I pulled the cartridge from the cabinet and the red speaker lead came off the plug on the board.
Would that loose wire cause the unit to not start up or to shut down rather than just loosing sound but not power ???


I put a new connector on the wire and a new fuse in the holder, it fired up but quit after a few minutes and won't restart at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:25 pm 
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You are probably nearing the end of the line for the lifespan of what is likely an BASH amplifier, in that unit.

If it is just a connector issue, get that fixed and possibly look at re-capping the entire amplifier board and it's pulse power supply.

If the unit is from 2008-2009, then it might be near the end of the lifespan of the capacitors on the amp board. Especially the smaller caps.

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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Location: Mississauga, ON, CA
Teo Audio wrote:
You are probably nearing the end of the line for the lifespan of what is likely an BASH amplifier, in that unit.

If it is just a connector issue, get that fixed and possibly look at re-capping the entire amplifier board and it's pulse power supply.

If the unit is from 2008-2009, then it might be near the end of the lifespan of the capacitors on the amp board. Especially the smaller caps.

I respect your point of view, but seriously is the current gear so bad that the caps have 10 year lifespan?


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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:37 pm
Posts: 3262
Location: London, ON, CA
allgonoshow wrote:
Hi, my PB13 Ultra has been acting up.
Not powering up at all or shutting down while in use.
I pulled the cartridge from the cabinet and the red speaker lead came off the plug on the board.
Would that loose wire cause the unit to not start up or to shut down rather than just loosing sound but not power ???


I put a new connector on the wire and a new fuse in the holder, it fired up but quit after a few minutes and won't restart at this point.

It looks like you have some bad build quality, best take it to someone who knows what they are doing for repairs.

We cannot see what is going on from here...

Regards
Ohms

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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:56 pm
Posts: 1218
Location: Markham, ON, CA
still within warranty? contact SVS and get the BASH amp replaced.

I did that and SVS customer service's great. But in terms of quality, I have a pair of SVS sub, one needed replacement within 3yrs. I have a pair of HSU sub before the SVS, one of them needed replacement also. So my failure rate is 50%....


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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:00 pm 
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Location: Halifax, NS, CA
Bandy wrote:
Teo Audio wrote:
You are probably nearing the end of the line for the lifespan of what is likely an BASH amplifier, in that unit.

If it is just a connector issue, get that fixed and possibly look at re-capping the entire amplifier board and it's pulse power supply.

If the unit is from 2008-2009, then it might be near the end of the lifespan of the capacitors on the amp board. Especially the smaller caps.

I respect your point of view, but seriously is the current gear so bad that the caps have 10 year lifespan?


Very likely. They wouldn’t be the only sub company with this problem, just ask some JL AUDIO Fathom owners.

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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:13 am 
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Location: Waverley, NS, CA
Teo Audio wrote:
You are probably nearing the end of the line for the lifespan of what is likely an BASH amplifier, in that unit.

If it is just a connector issue, get that fixed and possibly look at re-capping the entire amplifier board and it's pulse power supply.

If the unit is from 2008-2009, then it might be near the end of the lifespan of the capacitors on the amp board. Especially the smaller caps.



It is 2 weeks past the 5 year warranty. I have contacted SVS Canada, Sonicboomaudio.

We will see how good their customer service is.


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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:46 am 
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allgonoshow wrote:
Teo Audio wrote:
You are probably nearing the end of the line for the lifespan of what is likely an BASH amplifier, in that unit.

If it is just a connector issue, get that fixed and possibly look at re-capping the entire amplifier board and it's pulse power supply.

If the unit is from 2008-2009, then it might be near the end of the lifespan of the capacitors on the amp board. Especially the smaller caps.



It is 2 weeks past the 5 year warranty. I have contacted SVS Canada, Sonicboomaudio.

We will see how good their customer service is.



pulse power supplies and class d amplifiers tend to run quite a few of their electrolytic capacitors close to the limit-edge or maximum ability of the capacitor to handle current and voltage modulations. Resonant circuits, extreme peak draw pulsing at high frequencies and similar.

The extreme modulation of the amp by a high powered sub driver,

the usually extreme physical vibration,

combined with not at the US mil spec level of build quality,

the not quit there yet understanding of all the possible failure points,

where it's all built to a price point,

in not quite perfect factories,

not quite as high and consistent parts quality from all the mystery parts suppliers,

and you've got a recipe for a very high failure rate.

Which everyone is seeing. Velodyne, SVS, HSU as mentioned, JL audio, and so on. (Edit: basically all modern sub builders)

Looking at this.. as this whole "pulse power supply and class d amplifier sub plate amp" thing began to really take off..it was inevitable. These things were known right at the start as the problems they would inevitably become, by anyone who was paying attention.

That things would so swimmingly, for a while.

Until we get to the set of problems that are known to exist in this scenario. Until we get to the end of life cycle. Which, due to the combination of potential issues, ends up with a fairly high failure rate. The kind of failure rate that would generally exceed that of a normal class ab, class g or class B type of amplifier design, as made in the west.

Most of the problems can be fixed and will be, but not until a lot more people pay for this 'price point' adventurism.

All these companies ventured to sell the public a thing people pulled from the shelf in their desire for cool things ...with a complexity the public does not quite understand... at a price point the public could afford or could deal with as an expense.... and left the customers holding the bag on the inevitable shortened end of life..all for the sales adventurism and company realization.

Some understood the potential high failure rate, some did not. But they all ventured to sell people these newer plate amp systems, due to the high power and the adaptability (dsp, eq, servo, etc) and price..that this combination brought to the table.

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Last edited by Teo Audio on Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:52 pm
Posts: 565
Location: Waverley, NS, CA
Teo Audio wrote:
allgonoshow wrote:
Teo Audio wrote:
You are probably nearing the end of the line for the lifespan of what is likely an BASH amplifier, in that unit.

If it is just a connector issue, get that fixed and possibly look at re-capping the entire amplifier board and it's pulse power supply.

If the unit is from 2008-2009, then it might be near the end of the lifespan of the capacitors on the amp board. Especially the smaller caps.



It is 2 weeks past the 5 year warranty. I have contacted SVS Canada, Sonicboomaudio.

We will see how good their customer service is.



pulse power supplies and class d amplifiers tend to run quite a few of their electrolytic capacitors close to the limit-edge or maximum ability of the capacitor to handle current and voltage modulations. Resonant circuits, extreme peak draw pulsing at high frequencies and similar.

The extreme modulation of the amp by a high powered sub driver,

the usually extreme physical vibration,

combined with not at the US mil spec level of build quality,

the not quit there yet understanding of all the possible failure points,

where it's all built to a price point,

in not quite perfect factories,

not quite as high and consistent parts quality from all the mystery parts suppliers,

and you've got a recipe for a very high failure rate.

Which everyone is seeing. Velodyne, SVS, HSU as mentioned, JL audio, and so on.

Looking at this as this whole "pulse power supply and class d amplifier sup plate amp" began to really take off..it was inevitable. These things were known right at the start as the problems they would inevitably become, by anyone who was paying attention.

That things would so swimmingly, for a while.

Until we get to the set of problems that are known to exist in this scenario. Until we get to the end of life cycle. Which, due to the combination of potential issues, ends up with a fairly high failure rate. The kind of failure rate that would generally exceed that of a normal class ab, class g or class B type of amplifier design, as made in the west.

Most of the problems can be fixed and will be, but not until a lot more people pay for this 'price point' adventurism.



Thanx for the reply and info, but what do you mean by built to a price, this was a 2k sub.
What do you have to pay for something not built to a price point?


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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:06 am 
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I'm almost willing to bet that not a single satellite ever sent to space has a pulse power supply in it.

too risky.

And if they do, that it is built with extreme grade capacitors, and most of them of film type capacitors, and so on..by engineers with 30+ years experience in building such power supplies ---for gear that cannot be allowed to fail. Ever.

Pulse power supplies and class d amplifiers have some choke points in their designs where the component stressing is extreme. These choke points cause high failure rates to occur, as we approach the end of life cycle of these systems. Correcting it costs design experience, time, and money. Costs that are sent down the line to the customer in one form or another.

As for which is best, I dunno. Difficult to say. I can recognize the problems overall, as can anyone who is familiar with the parts and design set of what makes up the whole electronic effort.... but fixing it is in the hands of the people who are designing, building, and selling these systems.

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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:52 pm
Posts: 565
Location: Waverley, NS, CA
Some times good sellers do step up.

Two weeks past the 5 year warranty.

Quote from Sonicboom……….

It looks like we will have to get this amplifier replaced for you, and I have gotten the authority to replace it under warranty for you :)

Please confirm you full shipping address as well as contact phone number for the delivery.


Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
would a 2018 svs sub have better quality control? :?


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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:21 pm 
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iriszizka wrote:
would a 2018 svs sub have better quality control? :?



It's nobody's fault, really. It's endemic to the amplifier type and type of power supply...more than anything..

The prediction is that high powered class d power amplifiers and pulse power supply systems, will always have a higher 'end of life' failure rate than old school power amplifier designs.

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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:35 am 
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Posts: 1313
Location: Guelph, ON, CA
iriszizka wrote:
would a 2018 svs sub have better quality control? :?


Hard to project quality control issues based on a post in an internet forum. You could go directly to SVS and ask them for some statistics and see what they say, I guess. Is it one in 1000? One in 10000? Then rule out all the power surges and lightning issues in customers' homes, hookup and ancillary equipment issues? Then do the same for all the other manufacturers. Would be interesting to see the stats. I don't think any of the sub manufacturers would have a quality control record that would spare every internet forum every single problem report.

That being said, subs are often built with Class D amps built in for reasons of economy, size, weight, cooling, etc. Personally I would rather use passive subs with separate Class AB power amps and expensive electronic crossovers but check your latest Bryston price list and see how many powered subs you can buy for the price of the big Bryston power amps and electronic crossover alone. For that money you could get some pretty nice full-range speakers and not have to worry about integrating subs into your room and rolling the dice matching existing equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: SVS Issue
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:06 am 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
I was thinking of getting a subwoofer for movies to pair with my harbeth 30.2 40th anniversary speakers and I haven't seen any other subs on the market aside from svs that claim fr to 16hz as they do. the more musical brands like rel, kef, etc claim fr down to the mid 20s usually from what i've found. if its really 1 in 1000 subs go bad, I suppose I should/could just pick one up and hope for the best. more likely than not it wont fail... I suppose you guys are right its the ones that do fail that the owners are pretty loud on the internet forums about. just noise, I guess. since 999 in 1000 owners are happy and dont bother posting about how good it is online.


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