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 Post subject: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:14 pm
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Location: Burlington, ON, CA
Looking for some advice on which way to go. Currently I have a project debut carbon with the acrylic platter and the Ortofon blue stylus. My phono preamp is the project phono box and I use the yamaha as1100 to Jbl 4312 Se.

I recently just put in the blue stylus and records where I heard sibilance(drove me nuts) now play without them. Now I'm thinking of upgrading the phono box. I ve read that one with a subsonic filter would stop my woofers from moving as fast as they do. (When I play cds or my sonos, the woofers move normally, only when I listen to records)

Aside from that I got googly eyes for a clearaudio table. My limit for that would be about 3g for everything involved.

So what do you guys think upgrade the phono box or just save up for the next table?

I guess what I really want to ask is in your opinion would say a clearaudio concept table be km's ahead of my current table?

If it helps I listen to all genres of music but if say 55% of my listening is done to hip hop.


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:45 am
Posts: 1265
Location: Burlington, ON, CA
Listen to that next table before buying - I know Clearaudio ain't for me. And sort that woofer issue first before you spend more on vinyl - it may very well continue to be a problem with a new table too. There was a recent thread here with someone having the same problem:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=49850


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:59 pm
Posts: 153
Location: courtice, ON, CA
I would also add listening to a Rega TT. For $3K you could save half of this for a Planar 3 and a nice phono amp/DAC.

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Location: Burlington, ON, CA
hollinger wrote:
Listen to that next table before buying - I know Clearaudio ain't for me. And sort that woofer issue first before you spend more on vinyl - it may very well continue to be a problem with a new table too. There was a recent thread here with someone having the same problem:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=49850


Thanks ill check that thread out. From what I gathered and since it does not happen when playing a CD or sonos, that the fix was a subsonic filter which my current phono box doesn't have.
And what are your impressions on Clearaudio? Any table recommendations?

-- 21 Apr 2018 04:20 --

cdnduck wrote:
I would also add listening to a Rega TT. For $3K you could save half of this for a Planar 3 and a nice phono amp/DAC.


Thanks for the suggestion. I do see their name around a bit. Any specific phono that would play nice with it?


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:17 pm
Posts: 2893
Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
I pulled the trigger on the Clearaudio concept with Satisfy arm and Performer v2 cart at Christmas last year; which replaced a ProJect 2expeience sb with bronze cart. I don't regret the change at all.
have you tried the phono input on the Yamaha? it may better the basic ProJect.


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:28 am
Posts: 57
Location: Longueuil, QC, CA
First get yourself a proper turntable like the new Rega planar 3 and have installed a really good cartidge like the Rega Exact or a Dynavector 10x5 and please dump the project phono and just use the phono stage inside your A-S1100...i have one and it is really amazing i use it with a 1200$ Ortofon SPU with amazing result.


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Location: Burlington, ON, CA
mpublicover wrote:
I pulled the trigger on the Clearaudio concept with Satisfy arm and Performer v2 cart at Christmas last year; which replaced a ProJect 2expeience sb with bronze cart. I don't regret the change at all.
have you tried the phono input on the Yamaha? it may better the basic ProJect.


No I haven't tried the phono input yet. Reason being is being where my tt sits. Its probably about 6 feet from my Yamaha and I think the rca that came with the table are not that long. So instead they go the phono box which is about 3 feet from my Yamaha. I will definitely check it out before I get to serious into buying something.

Yeah if I go the new TT route that concept is on my short list to audition. What box are using with it?


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Posts: 153
Location: courtice, ON, CA
I have a rega planar 3 and I use a NAD PP2. Sound is sweet

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:17 pm
Posts: 2893
Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
MauriceRogue wrote:
mpublicover wrote:
I pulled the trigger on the Clearaudio concept with Satisfy arm and Performer v2 cart at Christmas last year; which replaced a ProJect 2expeience sb with bronze cart. I don't regret the change at all.
have you tried the phono input on the Yamaha? it may better the basic ProJect.


No I haven't tried the phono input yet. Reason being is being where my tt sits. Its probably about 6 feet from my Yamaha and I think the rca that came with the table are not that long. So instead they go the phono box which is about 3 feet from my Yamaha. I will definitely check it out before I get to serious into buying something.

Yeah if I go the new TT route that concept is on my short list to audition. What box are using with it?

I had been using the PS Audio Nuwave phono; great performer but I did move that for other reasons. Then a Graham Slee Revelation that didn't like at all. Have been using the phono input on my A-S2100 for interm and now the input on my Sudgen Masterclass; which is very good. Once I decide on my amp path I'll likely look at a good tube phono pre.


Last edited by mpublicover on Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:14 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Burlington, ON, CA
So far no love for just upgrading to something better than the Project Phono box I use I see....reason being is I see a Project Tube S for sale here. I'm a tad curious about it....

-- 21 Apr 2018 06:44 --

Jdcook wrote:
First get yourself a proper turntable like the new Rega planar 3 and have installed a really good cartidge like the Rega Exact or a Dynavector 10x5 and please dump the project phono and just use the phono stage inside your A-S1100...i have one and it is really amazing i use it with a 1200$ Ortofon SPU with amazing result.


That Rega Planar 3 is going on list to checkout. Will check out the phono stage. Curious to see how the woofers react.


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:26 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Woodbridge, ON, CA
MauriceRogue wrote:
mpublicover wrote:
I pulled the trigger on the Clearaudio concept with Satisfy arm and Performer v2 cart at Christmas last year; which replaced a ProJect 2expeience sb with bronze cart. I don't regret the change at all.
have you tried the phono input on the Yamaha? it may better the basic ProJect.


No I haven't tried the phono input yet. Reason being is being where my tt sits. Its probably about 6 feet from my Yamaha and I think the rca that came with the table are not that long. So instead they go the phono box which is about 3 feet from my Yamaha. I will definitely check it out before I get to serious into buying something.

Yeah if I go the new TT route that concept is on my short list to audition. What box are using with it?



I also moved my TT and created space between my A-S1100.
Having short cables wired to the TT, a separate phono pre allowed greater distance.
I've not yet had enough time to decide if combination of new cables and new phono is a upgrade.
It's new set up but I suspect I'm getting a bit noise now that I didn't notice with the built in phono.
I do suspect the 1100 amp does have a good phono.
New one is a Rialto made by Rothwell.

A low filter may help some to reduce your woofer action.
Have you tried moving the speakers? Does your room and space allow?


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:55 pm
Posts: 3011
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
MauriceRogue wrote:
Looking for some advice on which way to go. Currently I have a project debut carbon with the acrylic platter and the Ortofon blue stylus. My phono preamp is the project phono box and I use the yamaha as1100 to Jbl 4312 Se.

I recently just put in the blue stylus and records where I heard sibilance(drove me nuts) now play without them. Now I'm thinking of upgrading the phono box. I ve read that one with a subsonic filter would stop my woofers from moving as fast as they do. (When I play cds or my sonos, the woofers move normally, only when I listen to records)

Aside from that I got googly eyes for a clearaudio table. My limit for that would be about 3g for everything involved.

So what do you guys think upgrade the phono box or just save up for the next table?

I guess what I really want to ask is in your opinion would say a clearaudio concept table be km's ahead of my current table?

If it helps I listen to all genres of music but if say 55% of my listening is done to hip hop.


Then what you need to 2 SL 1200’s and a microphone! :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE77mLRv8aM


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:37 am
Posts: 760
Location: Quebec, QC, CA
I have been using a Marantz TT-15iS turntable. It is made by Clearaudio, and is a Clearaudio made in Germany 100%. Comes with a nice Satisfy tonearm and $900 Clearaudio Virtuoso cartridge, and is in fact an upgraded Clearaudio Emotion turntable.

Here is a review that somewhat compares it to the Debut Carbon:

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/maran ... -turntable

Another one...

https://www.devotedtovinyl.com/marantz-tt-15s1-review/

This last review makes a big deal of set-up issues, and the slight puttering of the belt when activating the motor. Nothing to it on all fronts, TT-15iS owners know that you need to just give the platter a 1/4 turn by hand to start things off. It is an absolutely superb table for the money. I put a cheap IKEA $12 lamp behind it and the semi-translucing plinth glows to stunning at night. BTW I also ditched my Graham Slee Era Gold phono stage in favor of the built-in phono of my Yamaha integrated.

Best feature of the TT-15 is how quiet and neutral it all sounds.

Check it out !


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 459
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
MauriceRogue wrote:
Looking for some advice on which way to go. Currently I have a project debut carbon with the acrylic platter and the Ortofon blue stylus. My phono preamp is the project phono box and I use the yamaha as1100 to Jbl 4312 Se.

I recently just put in the blue stylus and records where I heard sibilance(drove me nuts) now play without them. Now I'm thinking of upgrading the phono box. I ve read that one with a subsonic filter would stop my woofers from moving as fast as they do. (When I play cds or my sonos, the woofers move normally, only when I listen to records)

Aside from that I got googly eyes for a clearaudio table. My limit for that would be about 3g for everything involved.

So what do you guys think upgrade the phono box or just save up for the next table?

I guess what I really want to ask is in your opinion would say a clearaudio concept table be km's ahead of my current table?

If it helps I listen to all genres of music but if say 55% of my listening is done to hip hop.


Damn, I was all in until I read 55% Hip-Hop -find an excellent (older) Technics and be done with it (no I'm not kidding).

Clearaudio Concept (or Marantz TT-1 -made by Clearaudio) are 100X better than your current table -it won't be even close. (Marantz TT-1 likely available used in/around $1K/) A superb sounding deck.

Your 'dancing' woofers are due to subsonic signals (low frequency resonances typically wrought by warped records, but also by arm/cartridge mismatch -compliance and arm's effective mass- and possibly even room, turntable stand influences.)

Start with finding a phono preamp with a (defeatable) and effective subsonic filter (at least 12 db./octave and about 30 Hz -20Hz. often specified) to minimize/eliminate oscillating (resonating) woofers. I noticed a Cambridge Audio (or similar) phono-stage/amp with just this feature - a very important consideration.

pj

-- 21 Apr 2018 10:06 --

MauriceRogue wrote:
Looking for some advice on which way to go. Currently I have a project debut carbon with the acrylic platter and the Ortofon blue stylus. My phono preamp is the project phono box and I use the yamaha as1100 to Jbl 4312 Se.

I recently just put in the blue stylus and records where I heard sibilance(drove me nuts) now play without them. Now I'm thinking of upgrading the phono box. I ve read that one with a subsonic filter would stop my woofers from moving as fast as they do. (When I play cds or my sonos, the woofers move normally, only when I listen to records)

Aside from that I got googly eyes for a clearaudio table. My limit for that would be about 3g for everything involved.

So what do you guys think upgrade the phono box or just save up for the next table?

I guess what I really want to ask is in your opinion would say a clearaudio concept table be km's ahead of my current table?

If it helps I listen to all genres of music but if say 55% of my listening is done to hip hop.


Oh, forgot to mention : The sibilance experienced can likely be 'corrected' by changing tonearm height.

In my experience a high/tall tonearm height results in accentuated HF's (sibilance), too low and sounds 'thick', 'bassy/flat' sounding.

Adjust tonearm height accordingly.

pj


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrade question.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1387
Location: Milton, ON, CA
Here's a differing opinion. I will preface it by saying I'm not a huge Rega fan. I would take your 3K and get a kick ass phono stage. Going to something like a planar three won't be much of a step up in my opinion. If you're going to change your turntable for 3K you can get something like a vpi classic or TNT used. Or for a touch more than 3K you can get a heron phono stage. My end of the line phono stage that stopped me looking. In my opinion stop with baby steps and buy your forever pieces. You'll save money in the long run


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