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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:59 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Caledon, ON, CA
Hello.
After living for a while with Energy 22 Reference Connoisseurs, my first speakers in Canada, I finally realized what I want from the system overall. In fact, I want try to achieve a sound which I already had prior to my immigration. However with one condition - I've limited myself to only Canadian made gear.
I really miss the punch and tactile pressure in lows and mid-lows which B&W 801S2 Matrix were able to deliver at low to medium volume. Although, Energies can go really deep, I just don't feel anything, even as I'm gradually filling up and installing some sound treatment in my listening room. I guess it's time to move on.
I'm feeling like spending under $2000 for a pair of floorstanders. So far, I've noticed two contestants: Paradigm Studio 100 v.2 and PSB Stratus Goldi, haven't listened to any of them. I figure going with larger cabinets and larger woofer sizes is a safer bet. I suspect that both of them can't match Matrix overall, and won't be as pristine in highs as Energies, but I'm I think in this price range I have to sacrifice something to get what I want.
From I can gather Paradigms 100s are not so demanding to an amp, so they probably won't push me to upgrade my Bryston 3BST. Another reason is to pick Paradigm is my experience with PSB Stratus Silveri (moded), which I left in my mini "HT" setup, there's nothing what I liked about them.
Is there's anything else in this price range which can get me interested? The next cheapest potential candidate would be Totem Wind, but it's probably double the price I'm willing to pay.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:02 am
Posts: 755
Location: Barrie, ON, CA
Specifically given you want tactile and textured, feel-it-in-the-gut bass, I would seriously look at Mini, Middle and Model T speakers. They are Canadian!

I've heard the Paradigm Studio 100, not the PSBs. But the Brystons are a lot more punchy than the Paradigms.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Mississauga, ON, CA
If you are looking to spend'under $2000' why don't you
stretch the budget a little and get the 801MatrixS2??
They sell for between $2K and $2500.

The Paradigm's and especially the PSB Stratus Goldi will not come anywhere close
to what you experienced with the B&W's.
I know from experience..I have the 801S2's and have had the PSB's.

Matt.....tubeornotube


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:59 pm
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Location: Caledon, ON, CA
Adriankn wrote:
Specifically given you want tactile and textured, feel-it-in-the-gut bass, I would seriously look at Mini, Middle and Model T speakers. They are Canadian!

Those will be more expensive or on par with higher end Totems. Bryston have newer A1 and A2, but I'm not sure about their competitiveness in my requirements.

-- 04 Jan 2018 03:14 --

tubeornotube, I'd like to play a "Canadian Made" game.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:30 am 
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:16 am
Posts: 81
Location: peterborough, ON, CA
I know this will be considered heresy around here but why not add a couple of subwoofers to deliver the punch you desire and keep the speakers you have and like?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:35 am
Posts: 7
Location: Guelph, ON, CA
Sinc e you like the energy sound, how about a pair of the original Veritas 1.8 or 2.8. I have the 1.8 paired with some Classe gear and they can really rock, awesome bottom end and beautiful highs. They don't come up to often but both should fall on your price range.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:25 am
Posts: 11
Location: London, ON, CA
Axiom builds Bryston's speakers, the M80 V4 might be worth looking into. They have a 30 day in-home trial even for refurbs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:30 am
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Location: Sainte-Marguerite-du-Lac-Masson, QC, CA
When I had my Goldi I tried them with a 3B ST and it wasn't enough power. It would clip all the time. I now have PSB Imagine 2XT and they are much easier to drive and better sounding overall. But lots of choices...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Mississauga, ON, CA
Funkehed wrote:
Adriankn wrote:
Specifically given you want tactile and textured, feel-it-in-the-gut bass, I would seriously look at Mini, Middle and Model T speakers. They are Canadian!

Those will be more expensive or on par with higher end Totems. Bryston have newer A1 and A2, but I'm not sure about their competitiveness in my requirements.

-- 04 Jan 2018 03:14 --

tubeornotube, I'd like to play a "Canadian Made" game.



Hey that is being pretty patriotic but that is good.

I will second the suggestion of Energy Veritas..
Anything with multiple 6.5" or 8" woofers will definitely give you the punch in
the bottom end that you will feel.

A subwoofer could be a good way to go as well however I recommend two subs
for more uniform bass distribution in your room.
As long as you find one that can integrate well with your main speakers.
The Totem Storm I would recommend.

Good luck and keep watching the listings here

Matt....tubeornotube


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:34 am
Posts: 22
Location: Bolton, ON, CA
This may be a redundant question, but are you comfortable that all other components in your system are giving you the sound quality you're looking for? Reason for the question is that if, for example, your main source component is lacking in some way (bass drive, in this case), then changing speakers may bring a disappointing outcome. Ditto the preamp.

I speak from some experience here... About 8 months ago I had my CD player (Teac VRDS-10) extensively modded by CL Audio, swapping in discrete op amps and a discrete clock board, plus other mods (power supply, caps, etc.). The difference in bass delivery was major, among other significant sound quality improvements. Still wanting more, I recently swapped preamps, from a modded Sony TA-E86B that had been converted to a passive line device, to a Sugden C28 -- again, a major boost in bass definition and depth, and this was clearly what had been needed by the power amp (Belles OCM200) to really make it come alive and drive the speakers with some authority. Now my rather diminutive speakers (Esper Signals 808's), which I had previously thought had lean and anemic bass, are really delivering the goods. They sound like completely different speakers, that's how much improving the upstream components has influenced their sound.

Hope this helps. It would be a shame to get rid of some speakers that you like, when the root of your dissatisfaction lies elsewhere.

Cheers, from a fellow Caledon resident :)
Svend


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:56 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Orangeville, ON, CA
CdnViking wrote:
This may be a redundant question, but are you comfortable that all other components in your system are giving you the sound quality you're looking for? Reason for the question is that if, for example, your main source component is lacking in some way (bass drive, in this case), then changing speakers may bring a disappointing outcome. Ditto the preamp.

I speak from some experience here... About 8 months ago I had my CD player (Teac VRDS-10) extensively modded by CL Audio, swapping in discrete op amps and a discrete clock board, plus other mods (power supply, caps, etc.). The difference in bass delivery was major, among other significant sound quality improvements. Still wanting more, I recently swapped preamps, from a modded Sony TA-E86B that had been converted to a passive line device, to a Sugden C28 -- again, a major boost in bass definition and depth, and this was clearly what had been needed by the power amp (Belles OCM200) to really make it come alive and drive the speakers with some authority. Now my rather diminutive speakers (Esper Signals 808's), which I had previously thought had lean and anemic bass, are really delivering the goods. They sound like completely different speakers, that's how much improving the upstream components has influenced their sound.

Hope this helps. It would be a shame to get rid of some speakers that you like, when the root of your dissatisfaction lies elsewhere.

Cheers, from a fellow Caledon resident :)

Checking upstream first is wise advice.





Svend


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:58 am
Posts: 185
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
IMHO, Paradigm are OK, but you can get much better sound elsewhere, including your existing speakers.

When you talk abut bass punch, what freq range are you really thinking about? Most, hell, almost all 6.5 or 8" drivers can do a very good job down to 50 -60 hz, about the lowest region for "punch". The bottom octave is generally reserved for low E and below, or large percussion, not really the "punchy" range for bass.

If you're truly looking for bottom octave bass, think about adding a sub woofer. Your Energy speakers probably sound better than either of the 2 Paradigm or PSBs you mentioned. Your 3BST should rive them well, so I think I'd be inclined to look elsewhere in the food chain to see if there's something holding things back. What's the rest of your system?

If you're just wanting to go for a bogger box, then yeah, go take a listen to some of the bigger Brystons, or even some Focals, but bigger doesn't mean better sound - hell, even Totem M-1s are flat to 50hz and punch like Ali!

_________________
Audio: JMLab Mezzo Utopias, Oracle Delphi Mk 1/6, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermillion, AR Ref 3, AR Ref Phono2 SE, AR Ref75SE, AR CD3, MD FT101
Video: Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, Totem Mani2 M1 ctr Mite s/b, Storm sub Rega P6/RB2K 17D3, Ph1


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:27 pm
Posts: 12
Location: hamilton, ON, CA
you should research and consider the Mirage OM-5. definitely on par with way more pricier speakers, they have a unique and well designed presentation, and no subwoofer needed whatsoever. i had a set of 7's, and regret selling them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:59 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Caledon, ON, CA
willybilson wrote:
I know this will be considered heresy around here but why not add a couple of subwoofers to deliver the punch you desire and keep the speakers you have and like?

I though about such approach, but I feel it's quit a hassle to find a matching pair of decent subs on secondary market. For me it's easier to find a pair of full-range floorstanders.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:59 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Caledon, ON, CA
CdnViking wrote:
This may be a redundant question, but are you comfortable that all other components in your system are giving you the sound quality you're looking for? Reason for the question is that if, for example, your main source component is lacking in some way (bass drive, in this case), then changing speakers may bring a disappointing outcome. Ditto the preamp.

Hope this helps. It would be a shame to get rid of some speakers that you like, when the root of your dissatisfaction lies elsewhere.

Cheers, from a fellow Caledon resident :)
Svend


Hi, Svend.
Speaker selection was always the primary step in the system assembly for me. I hit the jackpot with Energy 22 Ref Cons for the money. Now, after some attempts tweaking room acoustics, I strongly believe that Energies reached the limit in terms of bass. They already were way above the expectations for a 2-way speaker.
The Rest of my system is: PC/Classe CDP-3 -> Bryston BDA-2 -> Bryston BHA-1 as a preamp

BTW I'm in Bolton too


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