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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:54 pm 
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i thinking of buying isolation transformer will it lower the noise floor of my audio system currently using 2 high quality passive power conditioners but still looking to lowering the noise floor


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:17 pm 
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You are asking "how long is a piece of string"..... more information is needed.

What equipment are you presently using? Types of connections?
How loud (or quiet) are you now?
Have you tested for EMI / RFI on your existing equipment? (in other words have you already verified that incoming current is an issue? ).
Speaker type and cabling?
What are you using right now for current conditioning?

There are a myriad of sources of noise, both internally and externally....you have not defined them

Finally, how are you going to measure the noise floor? If you cannot measure, how can you tell if there is a positive change?

Perhaps the issue is RF and no amount of external power conditioning will make a difference....


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:38 pm 
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If you don't actually need power conditioners, SQ might suffer from inserting them into the chain. It's one of those 'lesser of two evils' things, imo...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Full system balanced AC can be done with the right choice in a isolation transformer.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Teo Audio wrote:
Full system balanced AC can be done with the right choice in a isolation transformer.

Yes, but that transformer might not be the right answer, especially if it's not big enough to get out of the way.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:03 pm 
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jnaudio wrote:
i thinking of buying isolation transformer will it lower the noise floor of my audio system currently using 2 high quality passive power conditioners but still looking to lowering the noise floor


A Balanced/Symmetrical IT (i.e. Equi=tech) would be the better choice.

pj


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:39 pm 
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jnaudio wrote:
i thinking of buying isolation transformer will it lower the noise floor of my audio system currently using 2 high quality passive power conditioners but still looking to lowering the noise floor


120-V remains referenced to ground -noise floor unlikely to noticeably lower.
A Symmetrical IT on the other hand 60 V +/- to ground would however be terrific in lowering CMR.

pj


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:02 pm 
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http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/catch2.htm

Or just look into a Topaz or something like that. If you're powering the amp, these get big and expensive. Never found much advantage powering an amp with balanced AC versus basic isolation. Preamps and sources... sometimes. Once or twice ... Wow!

I only have transformers for the power. In this system, with 91 dB speakers and multiple amps, I can't hear if it's on and not playing, even up close.


Last edited by ngjockey on Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:06 pm 
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ngjockey wrote:
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/catch2.htm

That takes me back.



BTW, also much improved SQ -using a Symmet/Bal. AC power supply -namely much greater focus/clarity, dynamics and greatly improved (i.e. "clean") LF performance; superior definition/articulation.

pj


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:26 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
What worked very well in reducing noise floor in my set up was replacing stock fuses with synergistic research fuses. I also have a dedicated transformer.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:14 pm 
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500 watt isolation transformer is that enough wattage for home audio


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:02 pm 
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No. :)

2kva is a good start.

Industrial pro units are now the good find as all the topaz and similar units are overpriced. The next trick is to find transformers all on their own, no case, no outlets, nothing and have a box or wiring done for you. Or do it yourself if handy. Just remember it's not one hunnert percent legal at that point, mind you. Not specifically illegal, per se, but not covered by your house insurance.

every time I look for a simple transformer, I find them.... but I've spent lots of prior time figuring out how to find them...

The biggest hint is to not specifically look for isolation transformers but to dig in certain ways, and all the unlabelled isolation units will come up in such a search... but one will have to learn how to filter the morass. The usual, it can be done, but no free rides. Effort and knowledge has to go in so one can take the sting of price out of the equation.

The reason I state it this way, is that..as soon as the listing says isolation or balanced ac transformer... The price goes double to triple over what a stock unit that is similar and of good build quality would normally cost ....and so on. People want ridiculous money for a topaz isolation transformer these days. I go after 120/240-120/240 industrial transformers and then look for one with shield wiring, to double as the ground point for the balanced output. Finding a 5kva unit of such wiring, for under $400, is not unusual. Try that with the topaz label and it's closer to $1k.

Here's one that is not so badly priced but still quite pricey, in the end, when you look at the costing total when it's finally in your system.

$400 us, dollar conversion, taxes, shipping on a 100 lb unit, etc.

Look on kijiji, every time you remember. If price is a big deal, that is.

sad when it's cheaper to buy two of these from Ireland...

Then there's the toroidals from Antek:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AN-154115-1500 ... 0005.m2219

the next step up is generating your own AC via the industrial and computer use type pure sine-wave back up devices. look up 'Eaton powerware'. Poor mans high powered PS audio powerplant. As some are figuring out.

Nowadays, one can practically use a $150 Chinese sourced +2000 watt class D power amplifier, where the amp is hooked up to a isolation transformer and that transformer drives/powers the system. But that's an entire design effort....

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:44 am 
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Teo Audio wrote:
No. :)

2kva is a good start.

Industrial pro units are now the good find as all the topaz and similar units are overpriced. The next trick is to find transformers all on their own, no case, no outlets, nothing and have a box or wiring done for you. Or do it yourself if handy. Just remember it's not one hunnert percent legal at that point, mind you. Not specifically illegal, per se, but not covered by your house insurance.

every time I look for a simple transformer, I find them.... but I've spent lots of prior time figuring out how to find them...

The biggest hint is to not specifically look for isolation transformers but to dig in certain ways, and all the unlabelled isolation units will come up in such a search... but one will have to learn how to filter the morass. The usual, it can be done, but no free rides. Effort and knowledge has to go in so one can take the sting of price out of the equation.

The reason I state it this way, is that..as soon as the listing says isolation or balanced ac transformer... The price goes double to triple over what a stock unit that is similar and of good build quality would normally cost ....and so on. People want ridiculous money for a topaz isolation transformer these days. I go after 120/240-120/240 industrial transformers and then look for one with shield wiring, to double as the ground point for the balanced output. Finding a 5kva unit of such wiring, for under $400, is not unusual. Try that with the topaz label and it's closer to $1k.

Here's one that is not so badly priced but still quite pricey, in the end, when you look at the costing total when it's finally in your system.

$400 us, dollar conversion, taxes, shipping on a 100 lb unit, etc.

Look on kijiji, every time you remember. If price is a big deal, that is.

sad when it's cheaper to buy two of these from Ireland...

Then there's the toroidals from Antek:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AN-154115-1500 ... 0005.m2219

the next step up is generating your own AC via the industrial and computer use type pure sine-wave back up devices. look up 'Eaton powerware'. Poor mans high powered PS audio powerplant. As some are figuring out.

Nowadays, one can practically use a $150 Chinese sourced +2000 watt class D power amplifier, where the amp is hooked up to a isolation transformer and that transformer drives/powers the system. But that's an entire design effort....



Searching for a used Iso. transformer with precision windings (primary/secondary) as is demanded by a (effective) commercially available Balanced/Symmetrical power supply (i.e. isolation Transformer) may very well prove to be a 'shot-in-the-dark' undertaking.

Part of the expense of , say an Equi=tech product, is that of an ultra premium transformer design/winding precision. I'll bet they if not design their own, test each/every one to meet stringent specifications/QC. This is both time consuming -and expensive.

To think that such a premium transformer can be found in an aging (10-20 year old) design found scouring the Net and Craigs-list is unwise -foolish some would say.

Ken (from Teo Audio), are you referring to 'Torus' when you say 'Topaz' ? Additionally, you mention Eaton Powerware, so I looked up its products -what precisely does Eaton offer for residential audio buffs (or those looking for either a Equi=tech-ish Symmetrical/Bal. unit or a PS Audio-like AC Re-Generator) ? http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServ ... /index.htm

As opposed to searching and buying isolation transformers from Ireland , look to the used (local) market for a premium model from various brands -both new and used.

Most peculiar, however, is the "Buy Used" mantra from a supplier/manufacturer of new products ?

peter jasz


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:08 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
If you are looking for the actual balanced isolation transformer,
with a shield between the primaries and secondaries,
suggest you investigate Plitron transformers - Part No. 8575-X0-02.

The topic of isolation transformers has been discussed numerous times on CAM,
Including this discussion.
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/vi ... p?p=162425


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