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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:12 pm 
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Location: Gabriola, BC, CA
I have seen past listings about the Shure balance beam and some digital scales, but I hoped to borrow rather than buy, then I remembered I purchased a Lucky 11 gem scale years ago. It is a Chinese made dual sliding weight pocket balance beam scale for "weighing gemstones, jewelry, medicines :wink: and more" to a max of 10g with an accuracy of .01g. Still available for $11.50US from this website, apparently: http://www.saveonscales.com/product_mw_lucky11.html The trick was, how to get the beam when in balance (the weight at which this happens is set by two sliding weights on the beam) to be at the proper height for the tonearm as if resting on a record. Turns out, for my Rega P3 with RB300 and SS modded Denon 103R one simply takes the little cube of foam that is packed in the scale case, places it in the weighing dish and places the scale on the plinth of the P3 with the glass platter removed. Set the sliding weights to your desired stylus pressure. Carefully drop needle onto foam cube. Observe level balance beam, adjust stylus pressure if required. Observe level tone arm. Perfect. Accurate to .01g. & $11.50US!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:44 am 
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if you using observation by eye to determine whether the balance beams are level or not, then you're fooling yourself if you think it's at all accurate...nice try though.
you're better off saving the headaches, and buying piece of mind getting one off the 'bay for ~ 40 or 50 bucks.
byron


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:22 am 
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http://www.dealextreme.com

I bought my digital scale there for $13.50. Shipping was peanuts.

It's *very* accurate. You could buy a 5 g weight for calibration. But, when weighing a nice shiny penny, it was right down to the hundreth of a gram at 2.35 grams.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:23 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
Beat me to it Erik. I may have recommended it to you-can't recall.

This Canrong scale is well suited to the job at under $15. Non magnetic weigh platform just slightly higher than a 180 gram record so add .01 to get an accurate setting. Batteries that come with these are usually crap; I ended up buying batteries at the Source a few years ago for mine (my version reads to three decimal places as opposed to two) that came with either a two or three year extended warranty for an extra three bucks and they have worked out well. Buying the calibration weight for a couple of bucks is probably not a bad idea.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/digital-pr ... tion-16269


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:59 am 
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Location: Victoria, BC, CA
I bought the same one. It would be a very bad call to spend more than $13.50!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:53 am 
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Erik wrote:
It's *very* accurate. You could buy a 5 g weight for calibration. But, when weighing a nice shiny penny, it was right down to the hundreth of a gram at 2.35 grams.


that shows resolution, and if you get the same answer on the same penny it shows precision, but it doesn't show accuracy unless you happen to know the weight of that particular penny.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:52 am 
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zaphod wrote:
Erik wrote:
It's *very* accurate. You could buy a 5 g weight for calibration. But, when weighing a nice shiny penny, it was right down to the hundreth of a gram at 2.35 grams.


that shows resolution, and if you get the same answer on the same penny it shows precision, but it doesn't show accuracy unless you happen to know the weight of that particular penny.


Well that's kind of splitting hairs as the penny is supposed to weigh 2.35 grams. Possible of course that there are minor variations from penny to penny.

The Canrong I have has resolution to 1/1000th of a gram and can still be found online for about $60-$70 although most of that model are rebranded and sold for $100-$150 with an audiophile name on them.

There's always discussion on "accuracy" with these; out of curiousity I had my wife take mine into the lab (she is a researcher) and compare it to some expensive ($1K-$2K) scales that were capable of doing much more weight.

Mine ended up being accurate to within .007 grams. Or rather, it measured within .007 grams (that was the widest variance) of the lab scales on a number of items 5 grams and lighter.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:18 am 
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Blake wrote:
Beat me to it Erik. I may have recommended it to you-can't recall.

This Canrong scale is well suited to the job at under $15. Non magnetic weigh platform just slightly higher than a 180 gram record so add .01 to get an accurate setting. Batteries that come with these are usually crap; I ended up buying batteries at the Source a few years ago for mine (my version reads to three decimal places as opposed to two) that came with either a two or three year extended warranty for an extra three bucks and they have worked out well. Buying the calibration weight for a couple of bucks is probably not a bad idea.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/digital-pr ... tion-16269


I think it was you that recommended it to me.

Thank you!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:56 am 
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Location: Fisher Branch, MB, CA
My Carong digital scale worked great for a year - now it doesn't work even with a new battery. :( Maybe I got a lemon, I'll have to try another one.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:06 am 
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Albert wrote:
My Carong digital scale worked great for a year - now it doesn't work even with a new battery. :( Maybe I got a lemon, I'll have to try another one.


Yeah, the less expensive (two decimal place) units seem to have a bit of a bad reputation. At the price, it would probably be worth ordering two to have a backup.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Location: Gabriola, BC, CA
mantisory wrote:
if you using observation by eye to determine whether the balance beams are level or not, then you're fooling yourself if you think it's at all accurate...nice try though.
you're better off saving the headaches, and buying piece of mind getting one off the 'bay for ~ 40 or 50 bucks.
byron


Have you used this balance beam scale? - it's pretty obvious when it lines up - the difference between aligned and not is only 2 or 3 hundredths of a gram - I think that's plenty accurate for this application.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I have used this balance beam scale as my only source to weigh, since getting back into vinyl about 2 years ago now. It has always seemed crude to me. Based on this thread I just ordered one of these digital thangs :) Price is right. I'l let you know how it goes.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:48 am 
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Location: barrie, ON, CA
ordered one too. thanks for the lead.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:50 am 
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Location: Cambridge, ON, CA
Just remember and please be aware that the scale will only get you to the starting point of setting tracking force . You should always use a tracking record to finalize this setting for optimal sonic results .

Just my 2 cents

Peter


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:49 am 
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gulf_island_guy wrote:
Have you used this balance beam scale? - it's pretty obvious when it lines up - the difference between aligned and not is only 2 or 3 hundredths of a gram - I think that's plenty accurate for this application.

I use a digital scale that I've adapted with a drop shelf for stylus checks, but I'd be happy with a balance beam. I have one for B&O pickups that's just a thin 2 inch long beam of plastic with a raised fulcrum and a weight under one end. It's intended for very low tracking forces and is good for up to 2 gms, with the accurate end beginning at 0.6 where the index marks are 3/8 inch apart for 2/10 gms. I never use it but it's a novelty item, a keepsake from the heyday of vinyl.

The advancement of technology has made it affordable to own such incredibly accurate digital scales, but there hasn't been any corresponding need for the increase in accuracy as far as VTF is concerned. Manufacturers still make their recommendations in tenths of a gram plus/minus.

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