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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:47 am 
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Digital Don wrote:
Got this from a search tool called Google off this new thing called The Internet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier

See link at bottom of article for equivalent on Class A, A/B.

I’ve tried 4 or 5 Class D amps; just did not have enough body to the music for me. Smooth, but thin.
Primare was the best I tried, Nice implementation. Very fast. Natural.

Class G is interesting, Tried one of those, and liked it a lot (Creek Evolution 100A) but went back to the dark side (tubes) and staying.


Yes, I have tried a number of these as well. Devialet, Wyred , Lyngdorf. All sounded very smooth, but 2 dimensional and a bit thin overall. Just not my personal cup of sonic tea is all.


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:55 am 
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Location: Boisbriand, QC, CA
AVguy wrote:
The best Class 'D' amps are the ones using the new Hypex Ncore NC1200 power modules from Bruno Putzeys in Europe.
They're pricey I guess, because the companies using it are Theta Digital, MBL, Merrill Audio and Acoustic Imagery Atsah. (Read "expensive".)
I have heard the new Audio Alchemy amps and they are very good.
I have a pair of Merrill Audio Veritas monoblocs here that I'm selling for a friend and they are excellent.
I didn't like the 'D' class amps myself for quite a while, as they couldn't do the high frequencies very well, but...it seems that Class 'D' is much improved, and right up there with the best of any class.


Spectron Musician III mk2. A lot has been said about it in the USA! Only a few have heard them in Canada! Had monoblocs in my system for several years and they aren't going anywhere!

Any statement about the best Class D is not valid if Spectron is not included in the listening expériences!


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:26 pm 
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raelbot wrote:
............................

So yes - as many have commented - don't fear Class D

AND

as confirmed D isn't DIGITAL.

This seems confusing as some Class D amplifier designs are entirely "DIGITAL" right up to the final output stage :idea:

With these designs, if your music source is digital there is no need for a conventional DAC to convert to ANALOG before amplifcation.

Huge potential for new low cost, high power amplifiers 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
jst_canuck wrote:
raelbot wrote:
............................

So yes - as many have commented - don't fear Class D

AND

as confirmed D isn't DIGITAL.

This seems confusing as some Class D amplifier designs are entirely "DIGITAL" right up to the final output stage :idea:

With these designs, if your music source is digital there is no need for a conventional DAC to convert to ANALOG before amplifcation.

Huge potential for new low cost, high power amplifiers 8)


I'm afraid you are at odds with - https://www.audioholics.com/audio-ampli ... er-classes - the D seemingly is simply the next letter in the alphabet when they named the class.

From the article - Class D

Often erroneously referred to as “digital amplification”, Class D amplifiers represent the zenith of amplifier efficiency, with rates in excess of 90% being achieved in the real world. First things first: why is it referred to Class D if "digital amplification" is a misnomer? It was simply the next letter in the alphabet, with Class C being utilized in non-audio applications...


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:36 am 
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raelbot wrote:
jst_canuck wrote:
raelbot wrote:
............................

So yes - as many have commented - don't fear Class D

AND

as confirmed D isn't DIGITAL.

This seems confusing as some Class D amplifier designs are entirely "DIGITAL" right up to the final output stage :idea:

With these designs, if your music source is digital there is no need for a conventional DAC to convert to ANALOG before amplifcation.

Huge potential for new low cost, high power amplifiers 8)


I'm afraid you are at odds with - https://www.audioholics.com/audio-ampli ... er-classes - the D seemingly is simply the next letter in the alphabet when they named the class.

From the article - Class D

Often erroneously referred to as “digital amplification”, Class D amplifiers represent the zenith of amplifier efficiency, with rates in excess of 90% being achieved in the real world. First things first: why is it referred to Class D if "digital amplification" is a misnomer? It was simply the next letter in the alphabet, with Class C being utilized in non-audio applications...


Whatever the historical reasons for engineers to apply a single letter to a type of amplification, the generic term DIGITAL covers any and all switching (non-linear) designs.
A little confusing if an amp actually is traditional Class D, but new switching design innovations extend to Class F, I, S & T :idea:

These semiconductor suppliers call their amp components Digital Audio Power Amplifiers.

** http://www.st.com/en/audio-ics/digital- ... fiers.html? **

They don't appear to mention a traditional "Class" of operation. Maybe it's a non-issue :?:

Will only get worse with new designs in the future 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:28 am 
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Location: Windsor, ON, CA
The Truth About Digital (Class D) Amplifiers by Bruno Putzeys — August 29, 2004.

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-ampli ... amplifiers
____

"Firstly, I'd like to point out that "Digital Amps" is a misnomer. There are two (2) Categories of *(Class D) Amplifiers:

1). Analog-Controlled Class 'D'.

*(These are) Switching Amplifiers with an analog input signal and an analog control system.
Normally some degree of feedback error correction is present.

2). Digitally-Controlled Class 'D'.

*(These are) Amplifiers with a digitally generated control that switches a power stage. No error control is present.
Those that do have an error control, can be shown to be topologically equivalent to an analog-controlled class D with a DAC in front.

Both *(types) use switching power stages and have high power efficiency as their most eye-catching feature."
__________

*Denotes... 'Parenthesis' added. Thank-you!


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:07 am 
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Takira71A wrote:
The Truth About Digital (Class D) Amplifiers by Bruno Putzeys — August 29, 2004.

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-ampli ... amplifiers
____

"Firstly, I'd like to point out that "Digital Amps" is a misnomer. There are two (2) Categories of *(Class D) Amplifiers:

1). Analog-Controlled Class 'D'.

*(These are) Switching Amplifiers with an analog input signal and an analog control system.
Normally some degree of feedback error correction is present.

2). Digitally-Controlled Class 'D'.

*(These are) Amplifiers with a digitally generated control that switches a power stage. No error control is present.
Those that do have an error control, can be shown to be topologically equivalent to an analog-controlled class D with a DAC in front.

Both *(types) use switching power stages and have high power efficiency as their most eye-catching feature."
__________

*Denotes... 'Parenthesis' added. Thank-you!


A lot has happened in the world since 2004 :idea:

Switching amplifier technology has advanced in leaps and bounds beyond the "Class D" designs of 14 years ago.
In step with new DSP techniques and faster components for hi quality sound in a light weight, high efficiency package.

This evolution is ongoing with no end in sight.


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:28 pm 
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jst_canuck wrote:
A lot has happened in the world since 2004 :idea:

Agreed.

The point of my post, was only to show that a Class 'D' Amp...
Does not have to be 'Digital' (although of course; it usually is today).


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:35 pm 
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I did own first generation Bel-Canto monoblocks, one of the worst sound I ever experienced.

Fast-forward to 2016 - I had a quality (and expensive) Class D amp on loan from a friend two years ago.

My take on it - Class D it just doesn't sound like music to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:48 am 
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As the famous late PRC leader Deng Xiaoping once says, "It doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice." :lol:

I used to be a bit skeptic too, but after trying a Yamaha P7000s on a MMG I am now a believer too. Class D can be just as good. And with the power advantage per dollar it can be a real bang for the the buck!


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:08 am 
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milag wrote:
I did own first generation Bel-Canto monoblocks, one of the worst sound I ever experienced.

Fast-forward to 2016 - I had a quality (and expensive) Class D amp on loan from a friend two years ago.

My take on it - Class D it just doesn't sound like music to me.


And which one would that be ?


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:47 pm 
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I read (somewhere) yesterday of a "Class D, closed poop" amplifier design.
Is it safe to ask if this uses feedback?


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:09 pm 
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On the subject of Class D...I figured the Devilaet SAM technology was total BS but I stand corrected. After activating SAM the mid bass control it has with Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand SE is truly impressive. I don't have any other SAM enabled speakers around to be sure if the difference is that big with other products but it has me intrigued. With the VA's it was more dramatic than when I was using Room Perfect with a Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 and a wide variety of speakers. With that said it doesn't have the deepest bass of the Pass Labs X250.5 but delivers the goods with everything else. Like most things in this hobby there is trade-off.


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:07 am 
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sebkel wrote:
I read (somewhere) yesterday of a "Class D, closed poop" amplifier design.
Is it safe to ask if this uses feedback?

If you meant "closed loop" then the term implies feedback.

Feed back = loop back

Feed back provides a closed loop between an output and the input.

Neither use of local or global feedback are necessarily the good/bad that fundamentalists pronounce.


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 Post subject: Re: Class D amps
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:25 am 
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I may be mistaken but the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 is considered a pure digital Class D integrated with no need for negative feedback. It is truly a uniquely designed integrated with the bonus of having RoomPerfect.

I agree that when it comes to this technology it can be confusing.

Audiois1st

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