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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:02 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
Am I alone here or do we take to much of hit when selling our used equipment? We pay full retail on say a $5000 amp and are lucky to get $2000 . The dealer we purchased from give us even less on trade. I love this audio game but at times I’ve felt taken for a ride . I’m not looking for sympathy here just a fair deal. What are your thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Gerhard Roemer wrote:
Am I alone here or do we take to much of hit when selling our used equipment? We pay full retail on say a $5000 amp and are lucky to get $2000 . The dealer we purchased from give us even less on trade. I love this audio game but at times I’ve felt taken for a ride . I’m not looking for sympathy here just a fair deal. What are your thoughts?


Like anything else in demand, buy it used after the depreciation has occurred. You can buy superb 1970's early 80's amps, receivers etc.. and they are a much better value than buying new. For example, a Harman Kardon A402 integrated or a 930, 730, Luxman R1070, 1050 receivers etc would cost relatively more now as a new component. That value proposition is long gone. The relative cost of audio today is much higher for new equipment than it was in the 1960's, 70's, early 80's.

I would rather buy a Threshold Stasis 3 amplifier than buy a new equivalent high end class A amp. The Threshold would still be as good or better and can be bought for maybe 1/5th what you would pay to buy a newfangled version.Don't take a hit, buy used make sure a demo is offered so you can check it out first before buying.


Last edited by Musicware4u on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 237
Location: Thornton, ON, CA
Gerhard Roemer wrote:
Am I alone here or do we take to much of hit when selling our used equipment? We pay full retail on say a $5000 amp and are lucky to get $2000 . The dealer we purchased from give us even less on trade. I love this audio game but at times I’ve felt taken for a ride . I’m not looking for sympathy here just a fair deal. What are your thoughts?



CAM is all about not taking the “HIT”.

I really enjoy reading reviews, and then heading to the audio shows and hearing the best systems. But, for my situation (working stiff with two kids) it would be unwise to walk into ANY store and buy anything at full MSRP.

I recently revamped my complete system via CAM...the last item just sold, Gershman Avant garde speakers, bought used after the Montreal Audio show for 3600, had them for 7yrs and they sold for 2100. To me, this makes sense.

Let CAM be your guide to not taking a depreciation HIT...also, can I add that dealers are your friend, they buy and sell used gear all the time. However, trade ins (like cars) are not valued so much.

LC


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
Never heard of dealer buying used equipment. At least not where I live.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Location: Thornton, ON, CA
Gerhard Roemer wrote:
Never heard of dealer buying used equipment. At least not where I live.


Check audioeden.com look at there used specials...TOP quality previously owned kit, some are from customer trade ins, some are demo pieces. A good example is Totem speakers, just about any model is worth good money on a trade in.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 500
Location: Mississauga, ON, CA
Why buy new?
CAM is all about buying good used equipment...and if you decide to sell it and move on at
some point then you take little if any 'hit'.

For instance I have an ARC VT-100MKII which I bought for $3500 when about 4 or 5 years old (half of MSRP).
Right now ..over 12 years later or so I can get $2500 for it.
So that is a depreciation of less than $100 per year of my ownership.
What can you rent for less than $100 per year?

Matt....tubeornotube


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:01 pm
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Gerhard Roemer wrote:
Am I alone here or do we take to much of hit when selling our used equipment? We pay full retail on say a $5000 amp and are lucky to get $2000 . The dealer we purchased from give us even less on trade. I love this audio game but at times I’ve felt taken for a ride . I’m not looking for sympathy here just a fair deal. What are your thoughts?


I know what you mean. The used market depreciation value of the stereo equipment is totally dependent on its brand and its collectivity. Brands such as Pass Labs. Krell, ARC, McIntosh just to name a few usually holds its value very well to within 40-50% range in accordance with its original MSRP. The iconic equipment such as from an older ARC, McIntosh Marantz just to name a few design do not abide the rule of used market depreciation value as the prices are all over the place that can go twice and 3 times as much as their original MSRP. Take the Pioneer SX1980 receiver for instance that I paid over a grand for in the 80's and now they're commanding up to 3X of what it was worth brand new. And another example is the Sansui BA 500 power amp which is sought after by collectors these power amp can command an upward of $4,000-6,000, of course, it depends on its condition. Funny thing is these power amps don't sound any better than the lower cost Classe' 10 power amp which can be had for under a grand in the used market.

Oh well to each his own I suppose...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Location: Surrey , BC, CA
same with cars and even worse with used underwear..unless you live in Japan?! ..sorry different topic....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
libor wrote:
same with cars and even worse with used underwear..unless you live in Japan?! ..sorry different topic....


Ewww...used underwears are very expensive in Japan, of course, that depends on who used to wear it. Anyway enough of that....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:47 am
Posts: 4082
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Gerhard Roemer wrote:
Am I alone here or do we take to much of hit when selling our used equipment? We pay full retail on say a $5000 amp and are lucky to get $2000 . The dealer we purchased from give us even less on trade. I love this audio game but at times I’ve felt taken for a ride . I’m not looking for sympathy here just a fair deal. What are your thoughts?


Most CAM members treat their equipment with TLC
so consider buying used.
But as always shipping is a concern and buyer beware still applies.

Think just about all of my systems I bought used
except for demo speakers, a DAC, TV's and Blue Ray players which were bought new.

That being said, as you live in Winnipeg, Walter designs and builds SAR Labs amps.
Suggest you check Walter's amps out - they are a hidden gem.

To add:
I just shake my head when someone writes "I've invested $$$ in this piece of equipment ... "
Ummm ... No ... if the item is expected to depreciate in value, that's not an investment.


.


Last edited by Uunderhill on Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:55 pm
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Gerhard Roemer wrote:
Am I alone here or do we take to much of hit when selling our used equipment? We pay full retail on say a $5000 amp and are lucky to get $2000 . The dealer we purchased from give us even less on trade. I love this audio game but at times I’ve felt taken for a ride . I’m not looking for sympathy here just a fair deal. What are your thoughts?

Do the math, dealers I have dealt with give 15 to 30% off purchasing new, then take off 30% used depreciation when you go to sell or trade and there you go. The issue I have is used sellers on Canuck reselling at same as purchased price ignoring the fact of depreciation every time some thing changes hands.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON, CA
Audio is not an investment, therefore, it depreciates like everything else. You need to measure the utility that System provides compared to the depreciated value to obtain a personal sense of value.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
Agree with that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Location: Delta, BC, CA
Rule #1, never ever pay MSRP.... ever.... the name states it itself, "suggested retail price"... which I suggest to you is over inflated and sometimes, downright a rip off..., I have purchased new, but not after a healthy discount....

A old formula I heard back in the late 70's when I started this obsession... :

20% off MRSP the minute you walk out the store
10% of the remaining after 6 months
10% of the remaining after 6 more months... basically 45% or so after one year
5% after the next 6 months....
When in doubt go to the Audiogon blue book and take an average price of the last 5 years..... that should give you a very good idea of worth... what I hate is the bozo's who try and sell something used based on the average over 10 years... sorry that is bad math..
Just because you think your selling price it is a great price, it doesn't mean it is... If it is a great price, it will sell within a couple weeks.... anything that has been online for sale for more than 30 days, is priced too high or there is simply no interest in the product.... so you guys with items up for sale for 90 days.....Wrong price boys... face reality.... sometimes you get a good price, sometimes you take a hit because there is no interest in the product anymore...out of date. DAC's are a huge example.... Transfers.... also...

Regardless.... a good price will attract buyers.... for sellers, that may mean taking a hit..... CAM and Audiogon have great deals, average deals, and downright dreamers thinking their stuff is still worth $6500 and has been for sale for 6 months.... ya you know who I am talking about....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Location: Sault Ste. Marie, ON, CA
Oh contrare audio is an investment as evidenced by the prices on vintage gear.


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