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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:39 am 
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ricke666 wrote:
Forbes_2,

could you suggest me a model or two that has this HT bypass ?

Thank you,
Eric



The Creek EVO 100 has HT bypass and would drive those speakers very well.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:54 am 
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sasquatch wrote:
More power.Headroom is your friend.
Large room volumes eat SPL also.

G

+1
av receiver specialy for music, when all channel are demanding power wich cannot be adequately handle by a cheap 7 channel all in one receiver are useless. second mistake, you went with a rocksan integrated with about the same power as your receiver, not saying the rocksan is no good , just not enough power difference to make a difference. buy a separate amp with minimum of 200 watt/ 8ohm .
everybody do the same mistake-receiver are powerless, just ok for movies with no action, but when it comes to music. you need serious amplifier power.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:31 am 
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Receivers are good for movies not so much for music. The Roksan is a quality piece just not a good match for your B&W's.
If possible try an a Bryston amp. Most of them should pair well with the speakers.
Start simple. First the B&W listen for awhile. Then add the Velodyne. As others have mentioned you may not miss the sub.
You may want to consider a fan for your Marantz. They're cheap,easy to use, quiet. Heat is a killer.
Good luck and let us know how it all works out.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:41 am 
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Hello,

I am compiling all your very interesting inputs to solve my problem !

From what I understand from Forbes_2, an amplifier that has more power AND a home theater bypass should be a better fit. He mentionned the Creek EVO 100. On that point, Forbes_2 if I look at that picture, I don't see any ports on the back what would act as the HT bypass ? Image

mahatma1, could you suggest a model of Bryston that would have enough power for the CM8, have the HT bypass, and be budget-friendly ? And also, thank you for the fan advice, I already had this idea and plugged in a USB fan in the Marrantz :)

Thank you,
Eric


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:40 am 
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Eric,

The HT bypass input is #3 labeled A/V direct.

You connect that to your front L/R preout on your Marantz.

Then when you listen to music, you would be only using the Creek. When you do HT, you switch to AV Direct on the Creek, and it will act just like a power amp.

This will also free up some load on your Marantz, giving the rest of your system some more jam and clarity, which is especially useful for your center speaker.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:53 am 
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that ht buypass is not your answer. power is, the creek you look at is simply not enough power . you would be swaping a one dollars bill for 4 quarters and with the creek changing it for 10x 10 cents???
you have to understand, that right now you main probleme is amp clipping???
so that says it all, you need more juice.
I have 2 surround sound, and both are only used for music. and NO integrated amp with ht bypass woulds ever give me the sound that I am producing right now, with those 2 htset up. WHY because I go with serious processor and serious amplifier. ( lexicon , krell, McIntosh)
a good 2 channel systeme start with good amplifier and good preamp.
so for now! the Marantz should be ok for quality if not buy a separate pre-pro. but you will need a separate high power amp to drive the 2 front . that is the minimum to start with.
you can easely find amplifier of 200 watt starting at $500 and more
there is a nice classe audio ca 201 , a Marantz 510m ,a celeste 4150, bryston 4b sst, counterpoint sa 20. and many more.
all of these mention would blow away any receiver or integrated amp as far as quality and power .
they are also extremely reliable, and would drive your b/w with ease.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:54 am 
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Sorry if I missed something but I seem to get confused easlily lately and not sure if you tried it set up like this:

dac outputs--->rocksan CD inputs

roksan pre out 1---> sub rca inputs

sub rca outputs (filtered)-->rocksan main amp inputs

rocksan speaker binding posts-->your two speakers


Not sure how the Rocksan would be clipping so easily playing low bass notes if set up like this because the only bass notes the Roksan would be playing would be the stuff over 80Hz coming from the sub (which isn't really low bass).


Last edited by noway on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:08 am 
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Thank you zon001. Could you just precise how I would reach a way to listen both movies (HT, 5.1) and music (2.1) without having to plug-unplug wires ? It seems that the suggested models you propose don't have the bypass. Maybe I am just missing an obvious one, sorry for that !

Eric


zon001 wrote:
that ht buypass is not your answer. power is, the creek you look at is simply not enough power . you would be swaping a one dollars bill for 4 quarters and with the creek changing it for 10x 10 cents???
you have to understand, that right now you main probleme is amp clipping???
so that says it all, you need more juice.
I have 2 surround sound, and both are only used for music. and NO integrated amp with ht bypass woulds ever give me the sound that I am producing right now, with those 2 htset up. WHY because I go with serious processor and serious amplifier. ( lexicon , krell, McIntosh)
a good 2 channel systeme start with good amplifier and good preamp.
so for now! the Marantz should be ok for quality if not buy a separate pre-pro. but you will need a separate high power amp to drive the 2 front . that is the minimum to start with.
you can easely find amplifier of 200 watt starting at $500 and more
there is a nice classe audio ca 201 , a Marantz 510m ,a celeste 4150, bryston 4b sst, counterpoint sa 20. and many more.
all of these mention would blow away any receiver or integrated amp as far as quality and power .
they are also extremely reliable, and would drive your b/w with ease.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:38 am 
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ricke666 wrote:
Thank you zon001. Could you just precise how I would reach a way to listen both movies (HT, 5.1) and music (2.1) without having to plug-unplug wires ? It seems that the suggested models you propose don't have the bypass. Maybe I am just missing an obvious one, sorry for that !

Eric


zon001 wrote:
that ht buypass is not your answer. power is, the creek you look at is simply not enough power . you would be swaping a one dollars bill for 4 quarters and with the creek changing it for 10x 10 cents???
you have to understand, that right now you main probleme is amp clipping???
so that says it all, you need more juice.
I have 2 surround sound, and both are only used for music. and NO integrated amp with ht bypass woulds ever give me the sound that I am producing right now, with those 2 htset up. WHY because I go with serious processor and serious amplifier. ( lexicon , krell, McIntosh)
a good 2 channel systeme start with good amplifier and good preamp.
so for now! the Marantz should be ok for quality if not buy a separate pre-pro. but you will need a separate high power amp to drive the 2 front . that is the minimum to start with.
you can easely find amplifier of 200 watt starting at $500 and more
there is a nice classe audio ca 201 , a Marantz 510m ,a celeste 4150, bryston 4b sst, counterpoint sa 20. and many more.
all of these mention would blow away any receiver or integrated amp as far as quality and power .
they are also extremely reliable, and would drive your b/w with ease.

I have an audio system and a H/T system in he same room. That's where the commonality ends. They are two separate things. It can be done but of course there has to be a compromise or two. In my case I have a 5.1 system. The speakers are all small (sub included). They do pack enough of a punch to make movies and regular TV enjoyable to watch.
The audio system is it's own thing. No equipment in common. It is a bit more expensive to go that route but music wise it's well worth it.
H/T system: Panasonic Viera Plasma
4-Tannoy MxR speakers
1- Tannoy MxR CC
1- B&W ASW 610 sub
1- Marantz 1403 A/V receiver
1-Oppo- BDP-80
Axiom speaker cable and assorted HDMI cables.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:40 am 
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ricke666 wrote:
Thank you zon001. Could you just precise how I would reach a way to listen both movies (HT, 5.1) and music (2.1) without having to plug-unplug wires ? It seems that the suggested models you propose don't have the bypass. Maybe I am just missing an obvious one, sorry for that !

Eric


zon001 wrote:
that ht buypass is not your answer. power is, the creek you look at is simply not enough power . you would be swaping a one dollars bill for 4 quarters and with the creek changing it for 10x 10 cents???
you have to understand, that right now you main probleme is amp clipping???
so that says it all, you need more juice.
I have 2 surround sound, and both are only used for music. and NO integrated amp with ht bypass woulds ever give me the sound that I am producing right now, with those 2 htset up. WHY because I go with serious processor and serious amplifier. ( lexicon , krell, McIntosh)
a good 2 channel systeme start with good amplifier and good preamp.
so for now! the Marantz should be ok for quality if not buy a separate pre-pro. but you will need a separate high power amp to drive the 2 front . that is the minimum to start with.
you can easely find amplifier of 200 watt starting at $500 and more
there is a nice classe audio ca 201 , a Marantz 510m ,a celeste 4150, bryston 4b sst, counterpoint sa 20. and many more.
all of these mention would blow away any receiver or integrated amp as far as quality and power .
they are also extremely reliable, and would drive your b/w with ease.

they are all basic amp so they plug directly to the front main output of your Marantz and they would power your front b/w.
your Marantz is already doing every function that an integrated amp is capable of. plus it probably as more input, it already have eq integrated in . so the amp porpuse it toi drive your front speaker, so the Marantz is your pre amp.
so no button to press, no switching needed, no unplugging needed. you select the input on the Marantz, and then if you want to run in stereo, you just turn off surround by selecting stereo 2 channel on the Marantz, and there you go the Marantz will send signal straight to your external amp feeding your front speaker , and the sub should stay on. if not then you can hook your sub with line level .


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:15 pm 
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I have 2 surround sound systeme and 2 2 channel systeme, all are separate unit.
I have own many good pre amp ( McIntosh, audio research, krell and many other. I am using right now a krell pre amp and a McIntosh pre amp , on my 2 stereo systeme. and my 2 surround use mc 12 lexicon. and I can say that they are all sounding very good on 2 channel .
and yes the mc 12 can compete easely with any of the pre amp I have own. any pre amp that retail for $4000 will sound about as good as the mc 12 in stereo can do. but none of them give me the feature of remote control, and equalizer.
so yes a good processor or even a good AV receiver pre amp section, can give satisfaction in 2 channel play back.
it s the amplifier section of ALL av receiver that is lacking in sound quality and specialy power. because /NO multi channel, 5 channel and more using the same one and only transformer will ever give good sound when playing 2 channel music , and will even sound much worse playing music in multi channel.
and I don t need 2 seperate systeme( av and stereo) in the same room, because both my surround, at the flic of a botton will give me great sound just as good as any ($4000) pre amp could possibly give me. + I have a remote control and built in equalizer to boot.
and that is a fact.
for sure some will say that the lexicon retail more then $4000
but you have to consider that a processor have many function, it s a 9 channel Pre amp. surround sound processing, computer,equalizer.
so it wont compete with a $12000 pre amp. but it sure can do as good as a $4000 pre amp.
and those mc 12 are selling for about $1000 and less, now that is a bargain. buy any means.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Lots of great advice here...To summarize a few things from my perspective:
- Your Marantz has multiple pre-outs available. You need to test a proper power amp (200W+ into 8Ohms, preferably doubling that into 4Ohms) to really see what your L/R speakers can do in conjunction with the Marantz.
- You should learn or else get someone who knows to set up the Marantz to ensure it is correct. There are so many settings on an av preprocessor/receiver that it is easy to mess things up here and end up with really crap sound.
- Room???

I totally agree with what many have said here: av receivers "power" ratings should not be believed. They do not compare to a true two channel power amp...

I also think that an av system can bring a lot of benefits due to room correction - IF you perform the calibration properly. WAF, for me at least, was the main reason to do this since I cannot put any more passive treatments in our living room...YMMV...

Anyway, best o' luck. Feel free to msg me if you have any more questions.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Indeed, you summarized pretty well most of the people thoughts. I would like to explore another avenue. I would like to test speakers for defects. I have a digital multimeter with many options. Can i test the speakers with that, without disassembling them?

Thank you,
Eric


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:22 pm 
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ricke666 wrote:
Indeed, you summarized pretty well most of the people thoughts. I would like to explore another avenue. I would like to test speakers for defects. I have a digital multimeter with many options. Can i test the speakers with that, without disassembling them?

Thank you,
Eric


I will definitely defer to others here on that topic...You would really need to open them up, IMHO, and that is potentially complicated - I've never investigated B&W.

My thoughts are...if you question your speakers (and I really have to doubt this but...) can you borrow some (anything, really - even stand-mount bookshelf) from anyone in the area?

I've learned the most by borrowing/trading with friends of mine. When we listen/compare on each other's systems then we really get a much better idea of what the boundary conditions are. And, if it is really your room then no amount of swapping will likely "fix" that problem.

But that also implies what you want to listen to...Geez...

It's complicated... :cry:

best!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:27 pm 
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It's complicated you're right! The more I get inputs the more I feel unsure... You mentioned the room but i am confident it it's not a problem. I had it designed and built for that purpose. 13X20 with isolation, carpet on the floor and I the ceiling.


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