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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:15 am 
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There is no reason that you can't use the Type II system with 15 ips. Type I was a system specific to reel to reel machines because it didn't involve as much compansion as Type II. Since reel to reel performance was much better than cassettes, full Type II performance wasn't deemed necessary … but it will still work fine. Think of Type I as Type II Lite. Do some more research before you keep buying stuff … or not, it is your money.

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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:44 am 
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OP might be a little confused regarding double-ended and single-ended dbx noise reduction.
Anyway,looks like a Model 224 he has.

G

similar but still might help regarding levels

https://uwejelinek.beepworld.de/files// ... Manual.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:54 am 
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sasquatch wrote:
OP might be a little confused regarding double-ended and single-ended dbx noise reduction.
Anyway,looks like a Model 224 he has.

G

similar but still might help regarding levels

https://uwejelinek.beepworld.de/files// ... Manual.pdf


Good call. The OP seems as though he likes the 'idea' of DBX, he just doesn't know what it is supposed to do for him … a solution in search of a problem to solve.

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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:59 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Quadzilla. Thanks for the info...but a little condescending man... Forgive my ignorance but my history with DBX is precisely as long as this thread. I never claimed to be an expert in it, I bought it after watching a techmoan video on a whim. It was a a 70 dollar experiment and am glad I did it. I get the gist of what it does, and have read the manual. Ive also researched it online and in several, several places it says that type 2 is not good with 15 IPS. It's all over the internet. So forgive me for not intuiting otherwise. I also read the formats are not compatable with each other, which I took to reinforce this. It's also not the least bit intuitive what it's going to be like before you try it. Like I said the levels were not indicating anything was wrong. And good luck not pressing that disc button at least once! It was a fast learning curve mind you, lol

And anyway, I tried it at 15 ips on the maiden voyage and the highs were really distorted. I don't know if that had to do with recording it too loud or what. But Ill give it another go

Nackamichel - this unit was serviced not long ago. I had the exact same issue with my last deck, which it to say it's not the deck. I've tried two different dacs (my current one has a preamp in it). I have to set my DAC output between 0 and 10db to get any real output from it. Previous DAC was audibly very weak - unuseable. Someone on another forum told me it's an issue with amp input and gave me some numbers that made sense at the time. It is a pretty old tube based amp dealing with much newest digital technology is my best guess. That said, taping from the DAC sounds great.


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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Gotta say. I'm rocking my first DBX disc through a cheap phono preamp and an old dennon integrated I had lying around. Goddang it sounds so good. DBX definitely has a sound to it, but it's so good overall. I can't wait to play this on my normal system. I'm really surprised this didn't take off. Im going to be on the hunt for all 500 or so of these records. Hobby within a hobby.


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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:22 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
I used dbx extensively in recording cassette and it beats Dolby B and C in terms of a far greater SNR in excess of 90 db and no attenuation in the high frequency range which is prevalent with Dolby B and C. I get no data pumping. Just clean quiet tapes.

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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
On closer analysis....I'm confused. My understanding is that these discs are supposed to be unlistenable without the decompressor. Whatever I have happening here, the record plays great and sounds amazing, but sounds pretty much the same with the unit off, or whether or not the "disc" or "bypass" buttons are pressed. Likewise, I can play a normal record with the DBX on and it also sounds the fine. Neither of these things should be the case right?

I'm using a cheap Dennon receiver I don't normally use. Now, I know when I pressed that button while a normal record was playing on my normal amp it sounded horrible. And I know (read "assume") the DBX circuit is engaged because a) it still plays and works with tapes, and b) when I first set it up, the gain setting on the back of the unit was maxed out and I was getting a lot of distortion. I adjusted that and it went away and c) the vu meters on the RTR pick up the signal of the turntable. But last night I noticed that it didn't appear to be working as I've been reading. Do you think the Dennon could be causing it to behave this way somehow? I dont believe I have any digital settings checked. Everything is set to "analog". I'm not sure why I am both able to play the record without issues, and also play other albums with no issues. Am I missing something obvious?

It's an AVR-687. No Dolby or other effects and connected to the tape/CDR input and tape/CDR outputs on the Dennon.

Thoughts?

I should also note that when I adjusted the gain down on the unit the effect was very modest, like I could barely tell it was doing anything. The only thing that was certain is that if it was maxed there was very noticeable distortion, but anything less than full blast sounded more or less than same. It's nothing like the difference on my RTR.

I haven't removed the unit entirely yet (I have a bad back that limits my doing too much at once), but even so. Does any of this make sense?


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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:04 am 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
JasonGR wrote:
Yes, sorting out the levels involves some guepsswork. I've been told my rogue have a very low input sensitivity and ive have been used to making recordings will the knobs turned on all the way (ie loud). This works fine if I'm just doing a normal recording. With the dbx on though it came off so loud I could barely turn the volume on. I think DBX itself might take over some of this functionality - or who knows. The recording I made today was amazing to my ears. I'm tempted to buy a type1 version so I can still work with 15ips. In the meantime those RTR has sounded better than ever. And I'm super happy with it

And it was serviced very recently just FYI..


Be warned that the recorded tapes using the DBX noise reduction tend to sound a little weird in the form of signal pumping and gating sound, especially if you're using the 15IPS speed. You can hear this sound phenomenon in between tracks. Anyway, the best DBX noise reduction that I used with my then Otari 5050BII RTR was the DBX 150 stripped down model with no other options except the normal DBX noise reduction on and off switch and the recording and playback level adjustment. This unit seemed to match the Otari RTR but not with the Teac RTR that I also own at that time that tend to minimize the pumping sound effect in the 15IPS speed. However, I quit using it once I acquired the Revox PR99 MKII RTR. I think I still have the 2 DBX units the 120 and 150 models collecting dust in my stereo purgatory closet.


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 Post subject: Re: DBX encoding.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Thanks. I'm actually doing well on the tape front. 15 ips does indeed work ok, but it sounds about as good at 7 1/2. Much more striking effect at 7 1/2 anyway. I think I know this pumping effect people are speaking of, but it's been very minor. Nothing too unpleasant. Any thoughts on my above posts re: the disc I have? That's what's confusing me now.

Edit- so I discovered this disc is totally playable without the DBX encoder and sounds totally normal. I guess this was why I was confused - that and the DBX may not do a heck of a lot for this disc guess. Anyway. Never mind :)


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 Post subject: Re: DBX encoding.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:54 pm 
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JasonGR wrote:
Thanks. I'm actually doing well on the tape front. 15 ips does indeed work ok, but it sounds about as good at 7 1/2. Much more striking effect at 7 1/2 anyway. I think I know this pumping effect people are speaking of, but it's been very minor. Nothing too unpleasant. Any thoughts on my above posts re: the disc I have? That's what's confusing me now.

Edit- so I discovered this disc is totally playable without the DBX encoder and sounds totally normal. I guess this was why I was confused - that and the DBX may not do a heck of a lot for this disc guess. Anyway. Never mind :)


The main purpose of using the dbx noise reduction with vinyl records was to minimized and reduced the audibility of dust, scratches and most importantly eliminate the surface noise thus it will allow the reproduce music to play on a VERY HIGH DYNAMIC RANGE OF 90 dB.

If you have the DBX II unit of which most of these vinyl records were tailored for you should be able to take advantage of this technology assuming that your turntable and the rest of your ancillary equipment is up to snuff. I had two DBX records that I picked up from a Thrifty store many years ago. I did listen to them while playing on my VPI TNT turntable and was encoded through my then DBX II noise reduction system. I did hear the difference between encoded and pass through. When I applied the encoding the sound became somewhat silent devoid of noisy artifacts but at the expense of the top end resolution. However, when I played it without the encoding the sound was a little sharp coupled with surface noise but it wasn't unlistenable mind you as I'm sure some people would be able to live with it.


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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:19 am
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
That's helpful man thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:40 am 
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Location: Brampton, ON, CA
JasonGR wrote:
On closer analysis....I'm confused. My understanding is that these discs are supposed to be unlistenable without the decompressor. Whatever I have happening here, the record plays great and sounds amazing, but sounds pretty much the same with the unit off, or whether or not the "disc" or "bypass" buttons are pressed. Likewise, I can play a normal record with the DBX on and it also sounds the fine. Neither of these things should be the case right?


This doesn't make sense.

The DBX encoded vinyl should sound pretty horrible without the decoder...and sound just as bad if playing back a normal record without DBX.

I guess my first question would be...are you SURE that the record you bought was encoded with DBX? You might have to check your wiring on the DBX decoder...

I have a Teac V-800X cassette deck that has a built-in DBX disc decoder on it. I'll have to find one of these discs someday... :)


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 Post subject: Re: DBX coding.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
botelhda wrote:
JasonGR wrote:
On closer analysis....I'm confused. My understanding is that these discs are supposed to be unlistenable without the decompressor. Whatever I have happening here, the record plays great and sounds amazing, but sounds pretty much the same with the unit off, or whether or not the "disc" or "bypass" buttons are pressed. Likewise, I can play a normal record with the DBX on and it also sounds the fine. Neither of these things should be the case right?


This doesn't make sense.

The DBX encoded vinyl should sound pretty horrible without the decoder...and sound just as bad if playing back a normal record without DBX.

I guess my first question would be...are you SURE that the record you bought was encoded with DBX? You might have to check your wiring on the DBX decoder...

I have a Teac V-800X cassette deck that has a built-in DBX disc decoder on it. I'll have to find one of these discs someday... :)


Thank you for acknowledging what I said here.

Yes, both records I now own are 100% the real deal. They play without the decoder just fine. (All cables removed ) Also, it doesn't really matter what setting the decoder is on it sounds the same.

I'm getting my normal rig back soon (god willing) and can't wait to try it again. But it seems to me that my Denon is doing something on its own. The effect is still very apparent with my RTR, but I cant figure wtf is going on with the records. It sounds great either way, lol


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