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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:45 am 
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Michael F wrote:
good sound wrote:
Actually, many of the world's top recording studios do use high end cabling, including high end power cords. Shunyata Research cables are used in many of the best studios. Certainly not all recording studios use high end cabling , but many do.


Examples please. I`ve been in the industry for many decades and have seldom encountered anything more exotic than Furman PL-8s on isolation transformers.
For cable management, stock AC power cords are cut to appropriate lengths and re terminated with a quality Hubbel, Pass & Seymour or Arrow Hart Uground connector.
That along with a properly implemented grounding scheme is all that is needed.


It is no secret that many of the worlds top recording studios use high end cabling. Why is this so hard to believe? Whether or not this is primarily for promotional reasons or actually because the owners and operators of these studios actually believe that the use of hi-end cables improves the sound, is open to speculation.

Astoria studio, founded and owned by Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour and which is booked by many of today's top artists, uses all Shunyata products as do many other studios. If I remember correctly there is a complete list of professional studios who use Shunyata cables on the companies website.

I have read many a magazine adertisment where the cable manufacturer who posted the ad brags about the fact that their cables are used in this famous studio or another.

I am relatively certain that Abbey Road Studios, one of the most famous studios in the world uses all hi-end cables as well. A little research will reveal that it is not all that uncommon and that the list of top studios using hi-end cabling is not exactly short. Certainly many of the smaller studios cannot afford to furnish their rooms with hi-end cables and certainly many of the bigger studios don't see the value in using hi-end cables, for whatever reason, but why should this preclude any studio from using hi-end cables, regardless of your own personal experience?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:08 pm 
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good sound wrote:
Michael F wrote:
good sound wrote:
Actually, many of the world's top recording studios do use high end cabling, including high end power cords. Shunyata Research cables are used in many of the best studios. Certainly not all recording studios use high end cabling , but many do.


Examples please. I`ve been in the industry for many decades and have seldom encountered anything more exotic than Furman PL-8s on isolation transformers.
For cable management, stock AC power cords are cut to appropriate lengths and re terminated with a quality Hubbel, Pass & Seymour or Arrow Hart Uground connector.
That along with a properly implemented grounding scheme is all that is needed.


It is no secret that many of the worlds top recording studios use high end cabling. Why is this so hard to believe? Whether or not this is primarily for promotional reasons or actually because the owners and operators of these studios actually believe that the use of hi-end cables improves the sound, is open to speculation.

Astoria studio, founded and owned by Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour and which is booked by many of today's top artists, uses all Shunyata products as do many other studios. If I remember correctly there is a complete list of professional studios who use Shunyata cables on the companies website.

I have read many a magazine adertisment where the cable manufacturer who posted the ad brags about the fact that their cables are used in this famous studio or another.

I am relatively certain that Abbey Road Studios, one of the most famous studios in the world uses all hi-end cables as well. A little research will reveal that it is not all that uncommon and that the list of top studios using hi-end cabling is not exactly short. Certainly many of the smaller studios cannot afford to furnish their rooms with hi-end cables and certainly many of the bigger studios don't see the value in using hi-end cables, for whatever reason, but why should this preclude any studio from using hi-end cables, regardless of your own personal experience?



I have no reason to doubt that the studio`s mentioned do in fact employ some "high end" cables be it signal, speaker or power cables but that is an extremely small fraction of professional facilities and by no means represents an industry norm. I would be willing to wager that in the majority of such cases, these items are donated by the manufacturer or distributor and subsequently used to promote and associate a particular product with a high profile name as opposed to incorporating an item to meet a design objective. That type of sponsorship and endorsement is done all of the time and not limited to small ticket items either.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:22 pm 
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Most of what you say may be true, I suggested that possibility myself, in my last post. To be completely fair and honest I never said nor suggested in any way that recording studios utilizing hi-end cables was the norm, only that it was a fact that some indeed did and probably more than most would think. This was in response to a different members post who doubted that any recording studios utilized audiophile cables including expensive aftermarket power cords. I know that Shunyata claims that Astoria approached them about supplying product and that all cabling for the studio is supplied by Shunyata Research, including custom made ones not available to the general public.

It's not reasonable to conclude that those who operate and use recording studios are any more or any less subjectivists or objectivests than any other segment o the population. Therefor it seems logical to me that at least a small percentage of these studios would employ hi-end cables from audiophile manufacturers.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:11 am 
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The old cable debate,product marketing hype still works on the masses,I just talked to someone that told me about his $2500 cable purchase.
This person earlier had me over to tell him why his pricey system was not performing,I did not have to even listen ounce I saw the room.
Another cart before the horse,trying to spend only on gear,not understanding or learning about room acoustics.
I said I would help with his room and to call me,he did not but purchased expensive cables instead,along with new transport and Dac $$$ .
Cables make a difference, but are really used for fine tuning after the important basics are taken care of.
I worked with a knowledgeable audiophile who was friendly with local hi end store,they let him take a-bundle of different cables over his shoulders home for the weekend more than once for system matching,his system was well executed and responded to cable change.
I now make my own cables,custom length using the same conductor throughout whole system has made one of the biggest s.q. leaps.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:01 am 
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Agreed.

Zipp wrote:
Cables make a difference, but are really [best] used for fine tuning after the important basics are taken care of.


[my edit]

The trick is in knowing when the important basics have in fact been taken care of, because at that point, money is not going to be used to upgrade major components, it is going to buy cables. And the cables should cost less than the cost of upgrading a major component.

Within a reasonable set of limits and priorities, of course, since otherwise nobody would buy cables at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:11 pm 
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I find them worth it up-to what I'm willing to spend and this is the limit for me, I also believe a solid power solution is critical as well.
I just bought these items and notice some good and some bad things right now..
So three power cords and a nice power distribution unit..


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:01 am 
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A few weeks ago I replaced the 11 AWG Furutech power cables on a pair of First Watt F5 monoblocs with generic 14 AWG computer-server cable.

I already have 10 AWG Romex in shielded conduits on the wall, with isolated grounds for each duplex outlet, and cryo treated Voodoo Cables receptacles.

So far, can't tell the difference.

As other posters have suggested, the best course of action is to beg, borrow or steal some audiophile power cords, and have a friend switch them in and out of your system. Then, use the system for 3 days on, 3 days off with each type of power cord you have available.

Then you should be able to decide if AC cables make a difference in your system to your ears.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:51 pm 
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Toby wrote:
Agreed.

Zipp wrote:
Cables make a difference, but are really [best] used for fine tuning after the important basics are taken care of.


[my edit]

The trick is in knowing when the important basics have in fact been taken care of, because at that point, money is not going to be used to upgrade major components, it is going to buy cables. And the cables should cost less than the cost of upgrading a major component.

Within a reasonable set of limits and priorities, of course, since otherwise nobody would buy cables at all.


Agreed..........

For me, I found the order was:
Speakers and speaker placement
Gear
Cables

The great thing about cables is that you can demo before you buy (for most people)!
I found the most important or noticeable to be,
1) Speaker cables
2) Power from the outlet (to your power center)
3) Power cables to amp/preamp
4) Interconnects to components (preamp to amp first)

Others might have a different order but I believe decent power and interconnect cables at the end of the day are an important part of a system.
I leave it up to the individual to what is decent and what isn't.
If it sounds good to you then that's what counts.
To many people are getting caught up in science and their thoughts on what a system should have.
I say, if it sounds good, that's enough...........if someone wants to spend a years wages on cables, so what?
It's just a hobby.....your hobby. Do what you want, not what others tell you...
For me, both power cables and interconnects make a difference.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:07 pm 
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For your consideration:

It is also a psychology issue, where generally, the detractors will make a mighty fuss (bull in a china shop mentality), and those who believe and understand that power cables and the like make a difference, those folks will generally be more quiet and accepting of others opinions.

The bulk of the people who think and know that "cables make a big difference, and that includes power cables', they are more easy going, overall. Quiet. Not interested in debate or argument on the subject. No point, as they understand.

What this says, appearance wise ...in these sort of threads....is that the detractor vs proponent numbers, or percentages, is stilted toward the more vociferous detractors, when the opposite --is the true state of affairs.

To reiterate, cable detractors think they can hold their own in an argument about veracity of cables and audibility of such.

When the opposite is true, as 75%-85%...or more... of the people who know these things make a difference, are never going to show up in this thread, or any other like it.

This set of observations, brings down to reality... the fact that cable detractors are a TINY minority of the audio crowd. TINY.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:02 pm 
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That is because a tiny amount of people choose objective science over marketing hype. I'm not yelling or being vociferous here, just stating a point of view quietly. There's a ridiculously high margin industry that is without accountability or sufficient scrutiny, and it is supported by anecdotal zealots that simply regurgitate the marketing hype as their own experience. Tell a guy that buys a silver cable that it'll sound better in the top end and guess what... he'll be in these forums saying just that. It's uncanny, basically a lemming mentality.
Again, just my quiet tippy-toe opinion, take it for what it's worth.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:36 pm 
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even if he does...it is his system and his money to spent....and that is all what this hobby is about..making us smile...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:46 am 
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Big fat cables look better in my system. If I had cheap little black power cables it wouldn't look half as good.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:33 am 
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good sound wrote:
I never said nor suggested in any way that recording studios utilizing hi-end cables was the norm, only that it was a fact that some indeed did and probably more than most would think.


I seem to recall Floyd Toole talking about a survey of recording studio speakers that HK undertook. The idea was that speaker designers might benefit from understanding what recording engineers were using to monitor mixes. We might assume studios would use top drawer speakers but they found out a large percentage of studios used monitors that had shall we say, less than accurate reproduction...maybe the same might be true for cables.

speaking of high end cables, i am curious. Do they come with a spec sheet? I've never bought one so i don't know what kind of info the mfg provides. I unplugged one of my unbranded power cords and here is what is printed on the cord:

3 x 2.08mm
14awg
300v
rated for 105 degrees C

another cord was rated for 60 degrees C. Does anyone else have this kind of data on their cord or on a spec sheet that came with the power cord? How useful is this data in evaluating the construction of a cord?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:01 am 
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Teo Audio wrote:
For your consideration:

It is also a psychology issue, where generally, the detractors will make a mighty fuss (bull in a china shop mentality), and those who believe and understand that power cables and the like make a difference, those folks will generally be more quiet and accepting of others opinions.

The bulk of the people who think and know that "cables make a big difference, and that includes power cables', they are more easy going, overall. Quiet. Not interested in debate or argument on the subject. No point, as they understand.

What this says, appearance wise ...in these sort of threads....is that the detractor vs proponent numbers, or percentages, is stilted toward the more vociferous detractors, when the opposite --is the true state of affairs.

To reiterate, cable detractors think they can hold their own in an argument about veracity of cables and audibility of such.

When the opposite is true, as 75%-85%...or more... of the people who know these things make a difference, are never going to show up in this thread, or any other like it.

This set of observations, brings down to reality... the fact that cable detractors are a TINY minority of the audio crowd. TINY.

Would you be able to link in the credible data source from which these conclusions are based on?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:03 am 
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gnickers wrote:
good sound wrote:
I never said nor suggested in any way that recording studios utilizing hi-end cables was the norm, only that it was a fact that some indeed did and probably more than most would think.


I seem to recall Floyd Toole talking about a survey of recording studio speakers that HK undertook. The idea was that speaker designers might benefit from understanding what recording engineers were using to monitor mixes. We might assume studios would use top drawer speakers but they found out a large percentage of studios used monitors that had shall we say, less than accurate reproduction...maybe the same might be true for cables.

speaking of high end cables, i am curious. Do they come with a spec sheet? I've never bought one so i don't know what kind of info the mfg provides. I unplugged one of my unbranded power cords and here is what is printed on the cord:

3 x 2.08mm
14awg
300v
rated for 105 degrees C

another cord was rated for 60 degrees C. Does anyone else have this kind of data on their cord or on a spec sheet that came with the power cord? How useful is this data in evaluating the construction of a cord?


That data is very useful and in fact required by code. You can find more info in tables 2 and 19 in the CEC. These numbers reflect ampacity and cable duty rating. Assuming these criteria are met for the load and intended use, as yours are, there is no benefit to "upgrading" the cable further.


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