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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Well, I've had several of these in place for a while now.

It seems to me that they somehow manage to re-inforce the bass while attenuating the HF noise. I like them most when sandwiching them with large washers on top and on bottom.

They are currently in use under the phase linear, DAC and CD transport. Yes, they even help the phase.... There is an effect on the DAC too, but since the DAC is so little, the effect is improved when mass is added to the case.

It is always good to reduce vibrations on the CD transport, but I have not done a lot of testing on that device yet, having focussed on the other parts of the system so I cannot really comment here.

I am not using them on the pre, as the pre is currently doing double duty: rack mounting it stiffened the rack quite a bit. The phono stage is an odd shape, 3" wide x 2" tall by 10" deep, so it's a bit unstable.

It is very difficult for me to get rid of them now as I like the results very much.

[Edit by Mod: Tkubon has launched AmCan Audio to market his isolation products so this thread has now been moved to the Dealer General Discussion forum where AmCan is free to participate as a Dealer]


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Given the results you're getting I would suggest you try them under the pre (even at the expense of the stiffening of the rack).


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:28 pm 
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With metal plates top and bottom, they are impressive. I think Todd is going to have to find a way to produce them that way. I wouldn't mind trying out a set, although with planar dipoles I'm not sure how much of a difference they'll make.

The rack mounted pre is a special case; it's not buffered by any footers but then it's not resting on anything that would benefit from any isolation. Since you have grommets protecting the front panel from the screws there isn't any means of direct transmission of vibrations to the pre...except acoustically through the air. Clamping plates to it top and bottom might be the trick there.

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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Thanks Eric.

There have been quite a few members on CAM now who have tried these footers with positive results. The difference is so striking that it can take some time to adjust to what you're hearing. Much of the design came about by pure luck including Eric's suggestion to sandwich the silicone between 2 piece of brass or steel. Eric and I have since been trying to scientifically piece together how they work by scouring engineering text books and the like on constructing passive isolation devices. Its uncanny how similar the design is to actual tuning devices used in civil and mechanical engineering. The math is a bit complex for me to fully grasp but the footers isolate from noise of anything below the natural frequency of the silicone, which is somewhere between 5 & 12 hertz. Simply put the footers push back low frequency noise, which darkens the soundstage. At the same time anything above it gets amplified a bit and that helps to tighten up the frequency response. However, a bit of the natural resonance can get lost but by placing the silicone between 2 pieces of steel washers we end up with a contained nonlinear isolator known as a constant natural frequency isolator. This helps to bring some more emphasis backs towards the top end of the frequency curve and restore resonance. The frequency is defined by the source material and pre/power amplifier. Depending on the quality and mass of the gear details will begin to jump out at you. The reason they work is because they are built on a sound engineering principle of frequency isolation very similar to a tuned mass dampener much like what is used in bridge and building construction. The concept obviously isn't knew to engineering but is used on a much larger scale. The material selection between the natural frequency of the silicone I selected and the additive effect of using the steel washers seem to be tune optimally for the audio equipment. Its something that needs to be heard to be believed and the footers can be fine tuned a bit by adding weight on top of the gear or like in using the washers or just the footers on their own. It all depends on listener preference and type of gear. There are several products like this available on the market and we have had an opportunity to compare them to some high end expensive isolators and the performance of these just seem to be at the right frequency.

I am truly grateful to all of the CAM members who have supported my effort to design something new from scratch and give it a fair chance by trying a non commercial tweak in there systems. Since I have started doing this as a hobby it has shown me what a true community of audiophiles we have on this website.


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Can the compliance of the silicone be adjusted?

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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:54 pm 
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ripblade wrote:
With metal plates top and bottom, they are impressive. I think Todd is going to have to find a way to produce them that way. I wouldn't mind trying out a set, although with planar dipoles I'm not sure how much of a difference they'll make.

The rack mounted pre is a special case; it's not buffered by any footers but then it's not resting on anything that would benefit from any isolation. Since you have grommets protecting the front panel from the screws there isn't any means of direct transmission of vibrations to the pre...except acoustically through the air. Clamping plates to it top and bottom might be the trick there.


Anyone is welcome to try a set and if they don't work just return them to me undamaged for a full refund. I am not out to get peoples money, especially my friends. This was something that worked for me so I am trying in earnest to pass it on to others and if it doesn't work for you I don't want to stick you with it. If you're not happy, I am not happy. Since this is just a hobby for me too I custom make these to order and don't need the money to survive. I just use it to buy caps & records. :D

As far as producing the footers with the metal plates I have sourced some Brass washers that I think I will get and try to pass on at cost for those who want them - or simply go to the store and get them for yourself. Steel is just as good I think from what we heard. But one thing the engineering texts were clear on was that it will work better if the elements are not bonded together. Don't ask me to explain this one though.

The compliance of the isolation material can be adjusted at least 4 ways. #1 Start with a material that has a different natural frequency but its hard to beat the 5 to 12 hertz that this material probably has to start. I think 20 hertz might be best. #2 Contain the silicone like with using washers or flasks to keep it from exceeding its own natural frequency limit. This happens when the silicone is compressed past its natural frequency state (bottoms out). The washers help to do this by maximizing the weight distribution. #3 Use more or less footers to spread out the weight distribution to keep the footers from bottoming out #4 Add more weight to the top to decrease the effective frequency range. (Right Eric?)


Last edited by tkubon on Mon May 07, 2012 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:00 pm 
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I am still enjoying mine and I will probably buy some more for my other components (phono amp, preamp power supply, tuner etc).


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Using a fixed compliance is a better idea anyway. Keeps things simple and allows the individual to add/remove footers as necessary till the sound is right. I was just thinking about the light weight components (phono stages, etc) that would benefit from a higher compliance footer. One could stack weights on the component, but this might not always be desireable.

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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Albert wrote:
I am still enjoying mine and I will probably buy some more for my other components (phono amp, preamp power supply, tuner etc).

Thanks Albert for saying so. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:06 pm 
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I will likely buy a set at some point to try these out.

My understanding of this kind of stuff is limited to reading one or two pages online, but I suspect one reason they might work well with washers has to do with the properties of these two materials. The silicone is highly compliant and thus it stores energy. On it's own this has the potential to prevent vibrations moving up towards the component, but since the energy is stored within the silicone footer some of it can actually make it's way back into the component. In order to take vibrations that are in the component and pass them out, you need a rigid material that does store energy. So the washer is what accomplishes this goal, as the energy moves from the component through the washer very easily, and into the silicone where it is hopefully released in a non-harmful way (as heat maybe????).


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:32 pm 
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how much weight you can put on these?


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:51 pm 
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14 Years wrote:
I will likely buy a set at some point to try these out.

My understanding of this kind of stuff is limited to reading one or two pages online, but I suspect one reason they might work well with washers has to do with the properties of these two materials. The silicone is highly compliant and thus it stores energy. On it's own this has the potential to prevent vibrations moving up towards the component, but since the energy is stored within the silicone footer some of it can actually make it's way back into the component. In order to take vibrations that are in the component and pass them out, you need a rigid material that does store energy. So the washer is what accomplishes this goal, as the energy moves from the component through the washer very easily, and into the silicone where it is hopefully released in a non-harmful way (as heat maybe????).


Yes as heat.

The relationship is an additive 1/k + 1/k where k is the spring constant. Eric said this is like resistors in parallel rather then in series. In addition the plates allow for a more equal weight distribution, which helps to maintain the natural resonance of the silicone under dynamic load. Your explanation may very well be true but I can't extrapolate beyond that without being sure of what I am talking about.

-- 08 May 2012 04:01 --

libor wrote:
how much weight you can put on these?


A lot. Upwards in the neighborhood of 300lbs per footer. However, that's closer to its failure limit whereas ideally you would like to keep them in their dynamic spring-like state. The heaviest piece of gear we have done so far is Kartman's Mark Levinson Amp at 150lbs, using 6 large footers mostly for stability purposes but it sounded right. Most people who have used them say they work really well with transports, which may be due to the fact that there is enough weight to engage the spring mechanism while leaving the most room for spring response. Although audible it becomes difficult to distinguish sonic benefits between using 3, 4, or 6 footers. What's important is stability and balance as it would be quite difficult to overload the spring constant using 3 or 4 footers.


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:02 pm 
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tkubon wrote:
14 Years wrote:
I will likely buy a set at some point to try these out.

My understanding of this kind of stuff is limited to reading one or two pages online, but I suspect one reason they might work well with washers has to do with the properties of these two materials. The silicone is highly compliant and thus it stores energy. On it's own this has the potential to prevent vibrations moving up towards the component, but since the energy is stored within the silicone footer some of it can actually make it's way back into the component. In order to take vibrations that are in the component and pass them out, you need a rigid material that does store energy. So the washer is what accomplishes this goal, as the energy moves from the component through the washer very easily, and into the silicone where it is hopefully released in a non-harmful way (as heat maybe????).


Yes as heat.

The relationship is an additive 1/k + 1/k where k is the spring constant. Eric said this is like resistors in parallel rather then in series. In addition the plates allow for a more equal weight distribution, which helps to maintain the natural resonance of the silicone under dynamic load. Your explanation may very well be true but I can't extrapolate beyond that without being sure of what I am talking about.


That's okay, because you lost me at 1/k. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:04 am 
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ripblade wrote:
Using a fixed compliance is a better idea anyway. Keeps things simple and allows the individual to add/remove footers as necessary till the sound is right. I was just thinking about the light weight components (phono stages, etc) that would benefit from a higher compliance footer. One could stack weights on the component, but this might not always be desireable.


Well there is a definite correlation to the weight of the component and spring compliance. A minimal amount of weight is needed to engage the springs. Plus a DAC's transformer is not as large as a preamp or power amp. There may be less to be gained or released if it is the first component in the CHAIN. Using the washers helps to focus the load and adding a bit of weight is useful too. However there is a lot more to be gained from isolating components in series. If you recall after having listened to the effects of isolating Don's phono stage all night we then isolated the preamp in series with the phono stage and the dynamics exploded. I have everything in my system isolated as do a few others I have helped and the effects are accumulative. I think that we could have cleared up some of the lower end "tubbiness" if we tackled the amp & SPEAKERS. Every component plays a roll and if the speakers are isolated and the woofer compliance is tightened up the resolution is going to increase even further especially with lower end bass notes, which may seem to waffle if the speaker is not designed to produce the lower end notes. Speakers are probably their own worst enemies in how the need to move and push air to work but yet those same movements disturb producing the next note on top of interference from airborne vibration and cabinet resonance.


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 Post subject: Re: Tkubon's footers
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:53 am 
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HI Tkubon,

i had no idea this was in development, im very interested (and impressed!)

How much for a set?

based on the previous posts, I gather there is a sort of loose ideal relationship between component weight/number of footers/washer size?

i wonder for marketing purposes it would be useful to come up with a guide to loosely define that relationship ie "one footer per 20 lbs at 1 inch washer size, ymmv"

(just throwing that out there)

once again, very impressed, and how much for a set?


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