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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:32 pm 
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Piecing this together. Recently signed up for tidal with a purchase of Audirvana. Now, using my MacBook pro over USB the max resolution to my system appears to be 24/192. However, my DAC says it can manage 35-bit/844kHz. I'm curious if im misunderstanding something or if I have a bottle neck somehere. Thanks!

https://www.musicdirect.com/dac/nad-m51 ... igital-dac


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:03 am 
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JasonGR wrote:
Piecing this together. Recently signed up for tidal with a purchase of Audirvana. Now, using my MacBook pro over USB the max resolution to my system appears to be 24/192. However, my DAC says it can manage 35-bit/844kHz. I'm curious if im misunderstanding something or if I have a bottle neck somehere. Thanks!

https://www.musicdirect.com/dac/nad-m51 ... igital-dac


This from the NAD website:

With the ability to accept PCM data rates up to 24 bit/192kHz, the M51 makes it perfect for listening to high resolution downloads, allowing you to hear your favourite songs in the best audio quality possible.

How Direct Digital™ Operates

NAD’s technology uses a very powerful processing engine that operates at much higher speed and with much greater accuracy than typical DACs. Running at 108MHz, the M51 resamples the incoming pulse code modulated (PCM) signal and converts it to a pulse width modulation (PWM) signal with a sampling rate of 844kHz. Operating in a differential mode with double precision, the M51 has state-of-the-art specifications for low noise and freedom from distortion. The extreme headroom afforded by the 35-bit architecture allows for a DSP-based volume control that does not reduce resolution.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:22 am 
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I will let the experts chime in but what I read is you are conflating two different sets of signals.

PCM is the signal that gives you the 24 192 number. (Pulse Code Modulation)

PWM is the signal that the PCM is converted to by the NAD architecture, hence your 35 844. (Pulse Wave Modulation)

So, no you are not missing out on anything. The NAD is converting one digital signal to another.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Thanks, sooooo. Does it not stand to reason that it should be able to handle some DSD or other higher bitrate info if it it's changimg and upsampling anything that goes into it anyway?

I mean, I assume there is a good reason it doesn't, but just curious. And thanks again.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:40 pm 
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I think the quick answer is,, it's a few years old.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Yeah, I guess I'm overlooking the obvious.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:35 pm 
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I listen to cd and records only. My question is what more do you want? I must admit I'm not familiar with this format and I will never jump ship to streaming except when it comes to portable devices. For me, my minimal record / cd collection is all that I need. Does high res improve the quality of let say the Beach Boys Pet Sounds, which I find the recording awful on record that I had recently purchased. My thinking would be that old music would have to be recorded in todays tech, otherwise if a recording is done right the first time there would be no need for high res music. This high res streaming has taken the fun out this hobby.
Don't want to sound like a miserable old fuddy duddy and I don't want to rain on your parade but what irks me is when some hifi dealer tries to convince me to switch over I find it very troublesome.
In the near future I'll be in the market for another disc spinner.
Sorry if you find this post offensive . It's not my intention.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Hey, I'm honestly not sure what the limit for this sort of thing is but, in general and all else equal, Hi Res does sound better to me. I think you definitely need decent equipment to hear it. But Nyquist math etc..notwithstanding higher resolution often sounds a lot better than CD. I actually hate the sound of CDs, to be honest, and I'm not a huge fan of digital in general. But it seems to get better at higher resolution and with better software. I'm still of the opinion that production is most important too, and I think the idea is too get the same level of quality as in the studio, - whether tape or digital. but otherwise i believe my ears - naive as they may be. MQA for example, even though I'm not getting full resolution, sounds great compared to the CD quality equivalents.

Now full is **** as I may or not be here, I enjoy being an audiophile and mucking around with things like this. And pursuing diminishing returns, lol. I'm no expert, and it's been really rewarding for me to learn all things audio over the last few years and invest in better and better gear to the best of my ability. I mean, it is a hobby right? It's all for it's own sake. I wouldn't try to convince anyone of anything else. This is just what I like doing.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:57 am 
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I don't believe that NAD can handle DSD. Also note that depending on how you are feeding your DAC will affect the sample rate it can accept. If you are using USB, there is a limitation of 24 192 and that goes for most USB fed DACS. USB is the problem, not the NAD. SPDIF may be higher, you will have to read the specifications/manual.

I own the bigger cousin of that DAC, the NAD M2 Direct Digital Amplifier and I have yet to experiment with higher resolution media though I own it but just use it in a better system. I don't have the ability to tell the difference between Redbook and hi rez. Others they say they can and I don't doubt it but I listen to CD quality and I am content.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:08 am 
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blakcloud wrote:
I don't believe that NAD can handle DSD. Also note that depending on how you are feeding your DAC will affect the sample rate it can accept. If you are using USB, there is a limitation of 24 192 and that goes for most USB fed DACS. USB is the problem, not the NAD. SPDIF may be higher, you will have to read the specifications/manual.

I own the bigger cousin of that DAC, the NAD M2 Direct Digital Amplifier and I have yet to experiment with higher resolution media though I own it but just use it in a better system. I don't have the ability to tell the difference between Redbook and hi rez. Others they say they can and I don't doubt it but I listen to CD quality and I am content.

That is not correct. USB is perfectly fine to accept DSD signals and in fact is probably the preferred method. Almost every DSD-capable DAC recommends USB input for that format.

The NAD M51 is a fairly old DAC by today's standards and does not support DSD. (I'm not sure if NAD has jumped on-board with DSD or not at this point.)

Having said that, it's a great DAC. You should enjoy it and not worry about whether you're missing anything. You probably aren't. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:09 am 
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JasonGR wrote:
Hey, I'm honestly not sure what the limit for this sort of thing is but, in general and all else equal, Hi Res does sound better to me. I think you definitely need decent equipment to hear it. But Nyquist math etc..notwithstanding higher resolution often sounds a lot better than CD. I actually hate the sound of CDs, to be honest, and I'm not a huge fan of digital in general. But it seems to get better at higher resolution and with better software. I'm still of the opinion that production is most important too, and I think the idea is too get the same level of quality as in the studio, - whether tape or digital. but otherwise i believe my ears - naive as they may be. MQA for example, even though I'm not getting full resolution, sounds great compared to the CD quality equivalents.

Now full is **** as I may or not be here, I enjoy being an audiophile and mucking around with things like this. And pursuing diminishing returns, lol. I'm no expert, and it's been really rewarding for me to learn all things audio over the last few years and invest in better and better gear to the best of my ability. I mean, it is a hobby right? It's all for it's own sake. I wouldn't try to convince anyone of anything else. This is just what I like doing.

Thanks for your honesty. Also pursuing diminishing returns :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:39 pm 
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:)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:23 pm 
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shortcuttomoncton wrote:
blakcloud wrote:
I don't believe that NAD can handle DSD. Also note that depending on how you are feeding your DAC will affect the sample rate it can accept. If you are using USB, there is a limitation of 24 192 and that goes for most USB fed DACS. USB is the problem, not the NAD. SPDIF may be higher, you will have to read the specifications/manual.

I own the bigger cousin of that DAC, the NAD M2 Direct Digital Amplifier and I have yet to experiment with higher resolution media though I own it but just use it in a better system. I don't have the ability to tell the difference between Redbook and hi rez. Others they say they can and I don't doubt it but I listen to CD quality and I am content.

That is not correct. USB is perfectly fine to accept DSD signals and in fact is probably the preferred method. Almost every DSD-capable DAC recommends USB input for that format.

The NAD M51 is a fairly old DAC by today's standards and does not support DSD. (I'm not sure if NAD has jumped on-board with DSD or not at this point.)
Having said that, it's a great DAC. You should enjoy it and not worry about whether you're missing anything. You probably aren't. :)
You obviously have a comprehension problem. I never said USB doesn't take a DSD signal. I said "his DAC, the M51 can't handle DSD" I never said anything about DSD and USB. I also said his USB is limited to 24 192, again a fact that you can look up on the product page.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:02 pm 
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blakcloud wrote:
shortcuttomoncton wrote:
blakcloud wrote:
I don't believe that NAD can handle DSD. Also note that depending on how you are feeding your DAC will affect the sample rate it can accept. If you are using USB, there is a limitation of 24 192 and that goes for most USB fed DACS. USB is the problem, not the NAD. SPDIF may be higher, you will have to read the specifications/manual.

I own the bigger cousin of that DAC, the NAD M2 Direct Digital Amplifier and I have yet to experiment with higher resolution media though I own it but just use it in a better system. I don't have the ability to tell the difference between Redbook and hi rez. Others they say they can and I don't doubt it but I listen to CD quality and I am content.

That is not correct. USB is perfectly fine to accept DSD signals and in fact is probably the preferred method. Almost every DSD-capable DAC recommends USB input for that format.

The NAD M51 is a fairly old DAC by today's standards and does not support DSD. (I'm not sure if NAD has jumped on-board with DSD or not at this point.)
Having said that, it's a great DAC. You should enjoy it and not worry about whether you're missing anything. You probably aren't. :)
You obviously have a comprehension problem. I never said USB doesn't take a DSD signal. I said "his DAC, the M51 can't handle DSD" I never said anything about DSD and USB. I also said his USB is limited to 24 192, again a fact that you can look up on the product page.

Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote before trying to blame others. Maybe you didn’t mean to write “there is a limitation of 24 192 and that goes for most USB fed DACS...USB is the problem....SPDIF may be higher...”, but that is what you said. It is not correct.

USB is not the problem.


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