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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:39 am 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
I have a wonderful Accuphase E-302 integrated amp that does everything perfectly for me except one thing. There is no true tone control. I suppose adding a pre-amp would grant me what I want, but it would also be adding so much more that I do not need....

Graphic Equalizer? I know they were once popular, but I fear that may be adding TOO MUCH tone control with no real quick on the fly adjustments.

I listen to vinyl primarily, and CD secondarily. My speakers are Magneplanar 1.6QR's.

I would like to have some flex...

My question is: Is there anything on the market that I can buy that can function simply as a tone control, or do I need to add a pre-amp? And, if I need to add a pre-amp, what would be an economical choice considering the gear that I am using?

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:03 am 
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You could always make your own...
Attachment:
Tone Controls.jpg
Tone Controls.jpg [ 60.76 KiB | Viewed 737 times ]

https://quasarelectronics.co.uk/Item/3100-stereo-preamplifier-with-tone-controls

Ohms

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:05 am 
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Well for the money I guess it wouldn't hurt to try something like ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/finished-class-a-audio-preamplifier-hifi-lme4972ha-volume-adjustment-preamp-amp/162058073848?hash=item25bb69f6f8


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:53 am 
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Your E 302 amp is perfectly suited to integrate an equalizer. It can be placed in either of the tape loops or even between the pre out/main in jacks.
I would strongly recommend using a parametric equalizer due to its infinite flexibility compared to fixed ISO center frequencies of graphics which rarely coincide with problem frequencies.
There are many choices out there in the analog and digital domain.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:03 am 
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Michael F wrote:
Your E 302 amp is perfectly suited to integrate an equalizer. It can be placed in either of the tape loops or even between the pre out/main in jacks.
I would strongly recommend using a parametric equalizer due to its infinite flexibility compared to fixed ISO center frequencies of graphics which rarely coincide with problem frequencies.
There are many choices out there in the analog and digital domain.


Yes.

A parametric would be the best choice.

If you have PC media playback you should be able to adjust digital playback using those controls.

You may find that you don't like the results.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:14 pm 
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I would find an equalizer with a good digital analyzer, and mic input.

Start at flat.

Put the mic in the center of the room and send some pink noise through it - you may be very surprised how your environment is affecting what you hear.

You can then do a couple things:

1) play with the boost in different frequencies to try to achieve a flat tone (if that's what you like)
2) play with the boost in different frequencies to just find that sweet spot that you like.

It can be daunting with so many levels, but - you don't have to move them all from flat.
The issue with the example that was given by another member (the build yourself box) is that in these sorts of applications you are boosting a whole bunch of frequencies all at once and (sometimes) the results are just not what they are cracked up to be.

Have fun.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Tone controls were left out of the Accuphase for a reason, but if you need flexibility without compromise I'd suggest the Cello Audio Pallette equalizer. Anything else won't be nearly as transparent.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Schiit has an eq/tone control
http://www.schiit.com/products/loki


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:35 pm 
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With all due respect to everyone, many manufacturers leave out tone circuitry for (IMO) obvious reasons. I get that some claim it is for a "pure" signal path - that the amp is voiced already as the designers intended and should not need it; However, the reality is that the input signal, the speakers, and the room change the sound regardless of what the manufacturers intended... Designers can not account for this in their design.

I personally believe they are left out for another more obvious reason(s):
1) Cost
2) Marketing.

I believe manufacturers can bypass the tone controls with a "direct mode" just fine, but they chose not to.
For some time, tone controls have been "taboo" with many manufacturers.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:48 pm 
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- the Schiit would satisfy your need to experiment, for under $200.
-do use a tape loop, assuming one is available, do not put an equalizer in the in/out pre/amp loop. You can switch the tape loop in/out. And the voltage rise on the pre/amp loop isn't what you want to push through the equalizer.
- The Cello line will cost you $1000's ($10,000's)just to find out if you want to continue.
- while a system with a mike is great, a simple device and your EARS will tell you most of what you want to know.
- you'll know what you need to after some time with a simple device.

His OP says vinyl, not digital is primary...suggestions should reflect what he said... I doubt introducing a computer is logical.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:59 pm 
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What is the actually the issue? Brightness? Lean sound at low volumes?

I have tone controls on my stuff but they always make things worse.

You can use cabling, room acoustics other other fixes.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:59 pm 
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I am wondering what makes you think of the need to have tone controls, E 302 is very good sounding amp.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:39 am 
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Personally I like tone controls, recordings can be brutal...especially nowadays with hot mixes.

At least with tone controls you can add some warmth or take away some brightness...without them most likely ya won’t listen to that Justin Bieb record. :mrgreen:

Just sayin’


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:14 am 
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Like many CAMers, I have owned a lot of equipment. As I have gotten older, I choose components that are on the warm side of neutral for the exact reason that tone controls really destroy the sense of air and transparency that even a good budget system nowadays can muster.

There are very few LPs or cds that I now found difficult to listen to. That was not always the case.

This has meant shifting back to phono cartridges that are more forgiving, cabling that is much faster but grain free. Proper stands for equipment and speakers. Power products. Various types of isolation (products and DYI) and a rethink about the rooms.

I have had some systems that were actually bright, or thin or lean. In may cases it was the way the system worked together but it is also because I chose to ignore certain important tweaks. I preferred to spend on the equipment rather than the stuff no one saw (but made a huge difference).

My added difficulty is that I listen quietly which actually requires different choices in order for the sound to still be detailed and balanced.

I now have two entry level systems that are more enjoyable than the prior systems that had more expensive components because of the attention to non-component tweaks. The new systems do not necessarily cost less overall since wiring, cords, stands etc can be expensive.

I won't impress anyone but I enjoy the music more.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:24 am 
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Sasklite wrote:
- the Schiit would satisfy your need to experiment, for under $200.
-do use a tape loop, assuming one is available, do not put an equalizer in the in/out pre/amp loop. You can switch the tape loop in/out. And the voltage rise on the pre/amp loop isn't what you want to push through the equalizer.
- The Cello line will cost you $1000's ($10,000's)just to find out if you want to continue.
- while a system with a mike is great, a simple device and your EARS will tell you most of what you want to know.
- you'll know what you need to after some time with a simple device.

His OP says vinyl, not digital is primary...suggestions should reflect what he said... I doubt introducing a computer is logical.


Spent some time researching this product and came across this thread... I am sure most of you have seen it, but I will link it just the same:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit- ... t-13746220

I just finished listening to Elton John's eponymous "Your Song" album... fresh copy in 180 gram remastering... an album complete with ballads and country, strings and drums, and it sounded fantastic to my flawed hearing (tinnitus etc..)... Not one aspect that I would change given any option to do so. I followed that with a brand new CSN album, also their eponymous "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" album... and I find the sound very very flat. Stephen Stills does have a very flat voice (I like him), but Crosby and Nash don't. They all sound pretty flat on this album. Maybe it has not been remastered, or maybe it is my ears, but I believe that it could be instantly better with a little tone tweaking.

My very favorite album of all time is Van's Astral Weeks, but sadly his voice hurts my mildy damaged right ear on a few of the tracks. I am wondering if that masterpiece could actually be improved... for me!

To add to some of the other comments... The E-302 is fantastic. I have no complaint other than the absence of a bit of tone control. It is coupled to an amazing turntable (Project Xtension 12 with Hana SL MC Cart), and Magneplanar speakers that are great at delivering tone themselves.

It is clear that adding an old world EQ would be detrimental to the music. I could go hunting for an Accuphase pre-amp era specific to match to my E-302, but all it would do for me is add the tone control... I already have the phono stages etc... I am thinking that this little Schiit Loki is worth a try. Not much to lose.

Now... I am curious how it can be installed in the system. I have no intuition for installations beyond speakers, tt's and cd players.

Thanks for all the comments.


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