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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:41 am 
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I recently picked up a pair of PSB Image 1B speakers. They look like new but sound very dark. Very little treble output. don't know if tweeters are cooked or if this is how they sound. the tweeters are same on both sides and don't show any other signs of being blown so I do not know for certain that the stock tweeters are damaged or just sound this dull.
I am considering popping in new tweeters (not stock). The ones that apparently fit are better quality but are 4 ohms instead of stock 6 ohms. I am ok with resulting more treble output if these are more sensitive. The speakers have a long way to go before sounding too harsh.

the tweeters are: https://solen.ca/products/speakers/home ... c25sc0804/
(update: I called solen.ca and the tech told me to change order to BC25sc0604 similar but less sensitive so will be better match to original tweeter, also they are less money)

I do not want to mess with the crossover. Can you tell me if what I am considering will work or is it a bad idea. anyone have any experience with changing tweeters on PSB image line of speakers. Thanks


Last edited by Jamo1 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:05 am 
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Given the difference in resistance between the 2 tweeters, your cross over will be way out of wack. We also do not know the sensitivity or the original tweeter, there maybe an L-Pad within the crossover to attenuate the existing tweeter. Without knowing theses values you are stepping into the unknown. Not worth the $50 gamble.

Why not drop PSB an email or phone call to see about a replacement tweeter?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:57 am 
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Jamo1 wrote:
I recently picked up a pair of PSB Image 1B speakers. They look like new but sound very dark. Very little treble output. don't know if tweeters are cooked or if this is how they sound. the tweeters are same on both sides and don't show any other signs of being blown so I do not know for certain that the stock tweeters are damaged or just sound this dull.
I am considering popping in new tweeters (not stock). The ones that apparently fit are better quality but are 4 ohms instead of stock 6 ohms. I am ok with resulting more treble output if these are more sensitive. The speakers have a long way to go before sounding too harsh.

the tweeters are: https://solen.ca/products/speakers/home ... c25sc0804/
(update: I called solen.ca and the tech told me to change order to BC25sc0604 similar but less sensitive so will be better match to original tweeter, also they are less money)

I do not want to mess with the crossover. Can you tell me if what I am considering will work or is it a bad idea. anyone have any experience with changing tweeters on PSB image line of speakers. Thanks


Just to comment on your edit – does Solen know the sensitivity of the original tweeter? Just because it states 89db for the speaker, that does not mean the original tweeter is 89db. Tweeters within speakers are usually attenuated – without knowing what this value is, you have no idea what the outcome will be.

What if the original PSB tweeter has a sensitivity of 95db? The speaker specs states 89db so that gives us roughly 6db of attenuation. Despite the resistance of the new tweeter being different, this should not change the attenuation by much, but given the vast difference of sensitivity, you can see how the outcome could lead toward a darker sounding speaker – which by the sounds of it, this is something you are trying to avoid.

Contact PSB - even if they do not have the original tweeters available, they can at the very least give you some basic specs to which you can use to find something compatible.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Been there done that ... a couple times.

Have a read (friends blog on the subject):
http://drunkenrobot.ca/?p=43

sthomas1049 wrote:
Contact PSB - even if they do not have the original tweeters available, they can at the very least give you some basic specs to which you can use to find something compatible.


PSB customer support is awesome.

Having said that, honestly don't bother. They no longer have any stock of the old Image series tweeters and will instead try and sell you a tweeter from their current line of speakers. These are EXPENSIVE. You will also end up with different tweeters in both speakers. It's cheaper to buy two new tweeters from Solen's, get a couple of 24s, buy some new music to listen too, order a pizza, AND order some pay per view ... compared to buying a SINGLE driver from PSB. It's not worth it AT ALL.

So yeah, read the blog, and just get two of the recommended replacements from solens and replace em both.

Good luck.
(if you have any questions, let me know as I have done this a few times)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:31 pm 
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kolwrath wrote:
Been there done that ... a couple times.

Have a read (friends blog on the subject):
http://drunkenrobot.ca/?p=43

sthomas1049 wrote:
Contact PSB - even if they do not have the original tweeters available, they can at the very least give you some basic specs to which you can use to find something compatible.


PSB customer support is awesome.

Having said that, honestly don't bother. They no longer have any stock of the old Image series tweeters and will instead try and sell you a tweeter from their current line of speakers. These are EXPENSIVE. You will also end up with different tweeters in both speakers. It's cheaper to buy two new tweeters from Solen's, get a couple of 24s, buy some new music to listen too, order a pizza, AND order some pay per view ... compared to buying a SINGLE driver from PSB. It's not worth it AT ALL.

So yeah, read the blog, and just get two of the recommended replacements from solens and replace em both.

Good luck.
(if you have any questions, let me know as I have done this a few times)


If they no longer have this tweeter available (do you know this as fact or just speculating?), would it not be worth the little effort that is needed to email PSB, to try and find out the original tweeters specifications? Your friends blog does not go into detail other than said replacements will fit the originals tweeters cut out. He also doesn’t seem to be to too concerned with the crossover or matched levels.

The replacement mentioned in the blog states a sensitivity of 99db – Solen’s recommendation is 92db….that’s quite the difference. Given the attenuation is unknown which one is the better match?

It’s cheaper to do some homework, find a replacement that best fits both the speaker and it’s cross over than to blindly purchase some off the shelf tweeter only because it fits the same cut out.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Thanks for replies. I did try a couple times to get through to PSB and left messages. I think they closed early for long weekend. This blog mentioned is actually what linked me to Solen.ca. I first looked at same tweeter the blog said he was going with but it what recommended I go to lower model, as mentioned. your blogging friend never commented on how things worked out. it be nice if he let us know how the tweeter sounded or if issues. Although a risk that the tweeters don't suit the crossover well I still considered them as I have read that this particular PSB stock tweeters are known to be unreliable. anyhow, I have seen what appears to be the same tweeter as stock on ebay and amazon for about the same price but I have gone with the solen.ca peerless product as an experiment.

It looks like I am not the first to try this. These look like the tweeters that I have ordered:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/6490 ... es/562458/


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:28 am 
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Best way to get a PSB response on replacement parts is join the website and open a ticket or query


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:55 am 
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I had essentially the same problem with a pair of Image towers once. Very dark sounding, and no treble. I unhooked the tweeter altogether to see how it sounded. Nothing changed. So, obviously there was no tweeter output.

I ended up finding a pair of used tweeters from another set of PSB Images... Boom, it worked perfectly and sounded great.

I think the hardest part would be getting the new tweeter replacements. Not sure where you could get them, as it took me a few months to find. Check eBay and other places!

Best of luck! I believe they are known for going wrong and losing their ferrofluid cooling...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:07 am 
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Hi,

Steps.

1) First find out from PSB if the tweeters in the Image line are 'their own' or from another company. Sometimes companies like PSB use an off the shelf driver, say from a company like Peerless, but they will ask that the production run for 'their tweeters' are specified to be 8 ohm or 95 db or some other variation in the Thiel-Small parameters. This allows a speaker builder to fine-tune the response curve and simplify the cross-over.

2) If they are 'their own' then ask 'are there any spares available' (it is unlikely)?

3) If no then go to a different tweeter supplier. Sizing of the cut-out hole is critical and ensure if the replacement tweeter is deep that there is room behind it. Always replace the pair.

4) Solen's recommendation of the Peerless BC25SC0604, at 92 db and 4 ohms is a good one. It may not be ideal but it will work and the cost is nominal. The 99 db version of that tweeter is likely way too hot for home audio so avoid it.

5) Watch the cost of shipping with Solen.

Good luck.

Cheers,
David Neice

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:44 am 
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sthomas1049 wrote:
If they no longer have this tweeter available (do you know this as fact or just speculating?),

I know this as fact because I contacted them and asked. As I stated in my post, they told me they don't stock them anymore and tried to sell me a tweeter from a newer speaker. This was 2 years ago.
sthomas1049 wrote:
would it not be worth the little effort that is needed to email PSB, to try and find out the original tweeters specifications?

No because I already had the specs. Its was a standard Vifa driver that is not made anymore. You can look up the specs online, as I did two years ago.
sthomas1049 wrote:
He also doesn’t seem to be to too concerned with the crossover or matched levels.

The replacement mentioned in the blog states a sensitivity of 99db – Solen’s recommendation is 92db….that’s quite the difference. Given the attenuation is unknown which one is the better match?


This is mentioned in the blog at the end. I asked my friend yesterday to update his blog on his findings.

He's lived with the new tweeters for 2 years now and as I recall he found there was no real difference.

sthomas1049 wrote:

It’s cheaper to do some homework, find a replacement that best fits both the speaker and it’s cross over than to blindly purchase some off the shelf tweeter only because it fits the same cut out.


The homework was done. All of it. Two years ago. I have no idea why you are giving me the 3rd degree here.

I am going to ignore this thread from now on though. I have no interest in getting in a fight on the internet with some touchy rando over this. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:29 pm 
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kolwrath wrote:
sthomas1049 wrote:
If they no longer have this tweeter available (do you know this as fact or just speculating?),

I know this as fact because I contacted them and asked. As I stated in my post, they told me they don't stock them anymore and tried to sell me a tweeter from a newer speaker. This was 2 years ago.
sthomas1049 wrote:
would it not be worth the little effort that is needed to email PSB, to try and find out the original tweeters specifications?

No because I already had the specs. Its was a standard Vifa driver that is not made anymore. You can look up the specs online, as I did two years ago.
sthomas1049 wrote:
He also doesn’t seem to be to too concerned with the crossover or matched levels.

The replacement mentioned in the blog states a sensitivity of 99db – Solen’s recommendation is 92db….that’s quite the difference. Given the attenuation is unknown which one is the better match?


This is mentioned in the blog at the end. I asked my friend yesterday to update his blog on his findings.

He's lived with the new tweeters for 2 years now and as I recall he found there was no real difference.

sthomas1049 wrote:

It’s cheaper to do some homework, find a replacement that best fits both the speaker and it’s cross over than to blindly purchase some off the shelf tweeter only because it fits the same cut out.


The homework was done. All of it. Two years ago. I have no idea why you are giving me the 3rd degree here.

I am going to ignore this thread from now on though. I have no interest in getting in a fight on the internet with some touchy rando over this. :roll:


Touchy rando? No where in your post nor the blog does it state the specs of the original tweeter. Anyone with half a brain would question why someone would install a 99db tweeter into a speaker that is rated at 89db – especially without knowing what kind of attenuation has been applied to the crossover. Outside stating the replacement tweeter fits the cut out, your friends blog is vague at best – lacks details!

The OP asked questions, I outlined some concerns that should be considered. You could have easily addressed those concerns by providing facts and or specs instead of going on about buying pizza and beer with the savings! No one is trying to start an internet fight other than you. Get over yourself dude.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:42 pm 
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kolwrath wrote:
I am going to ignore this thread from now on though. I have no interest in getting in a fight on the internet with some touchy rando over this. :roll:

I had the same issue with the same person.

There is a fix.

You have a PM...

Regards
Ohms

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:14 pm 
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AudiOhm wrote:
kolwrath wrote:
I am going to ignore this thread from now on though. I have no interest in getting in a fight on the internet with some touchy rando over this. :roll:

I had the same issue with the same person.

There is a fix.

You have a PM...

Regards
Ohms


Please share this so called fix.

If you or any other individual has an issue with my posts you are more than welcome to use the ! button and report them to the moderators. Posts such as this does nothing but instigate, which I will remind you are against the rules. If that is your intent then by all means continue.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:58 am 
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kolwrath wrote:
I am going to ignore this thread from now on though. I have no interest in getting in a fight on the internet with some touchy rando over this. :roll:

You should be good to go now...

Regards
Ohms

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:28 am 
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Hi,

It would be of benefit if the OP would round out this thread with a report on his replacement tweeters from Solen. This would help the next person who has tweeter failure in the Image series.

Cheers,
David Neice

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