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 Post subject: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:46 am 
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An interesting article on some of shananigans going on in the audio industry

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6236


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:56 am 
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Posts: 885
Location: Markham, ON, CA
Once again, cable debates cause problems..... :shock:

Part of the issue here is that all of us have an emotional connection to our hobby; dispassionate discourse with someone who holds a diametrically opposite position will often result in heated words or (at least) bruised egos. This is an example of one of those exchanges. "Bun fights" such as these are one more reason I really don't join any official clubs any more......


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:49 pm
Posts: 431
Location: Coquitlam, BC, CA
So this power cable makes your amp louder? Gee, that does sound mysterious, although it does seem pointless in its defence.... I guess that's what all the fuss is about. P.S. "sudo scientific..."


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:03 pm 
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Posts: 690
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
This is no “debate” but rather a written attack by the author that includes the following quotes extracted below, that triggered an emotional response to his article that was IMO only a successful baiting.

(1) “....His demo produced audible/measurable increases in the amplitude of identical music selections. A result that is impossible according to the laws of physics.....

(2) It’s regrettable that you side with a sales person caught cheating during a public event sponsored by the LAOCAS rather than embracing facts...”

(3) “....unless you accept fraud as a proper way to do business...”

Based on his article, The author appears to be neither an accepted accredited expert engineer or any accepted accredited physics expert or any other audio expert.

I’m not a lawyer but this is how the irritating article reads to me:

Sure ...the author is entitled to his personal opinions, but these quotes above trend toward suggested alleged facts of demonstrated malfeasance with an intent to deceive.

The slippery slope here is that a failure to support these claims successfully may hypothetically lead the accused parties to consider consulting with their lawyers about a possible libel defamation (claim for written defamation)


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Location: Sooke, BC, CA
debertin wrote:
An interesting article on some of shananigans going on in the audio industry

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6236


I believe this contravenes CAM policy as it applies to the "Cable and Accessories" forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Location: Panache Bay
...right...it should be in the lounge...where you can talk about anything...well...except what everybody is talking about... :D

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It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. James A Baldwin


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:50 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Gunner wrote:
This is no “debate” but rather a written attack by the author that includes the following quotes extracted below, that triggered an emotional response to his article that was IMO only a successful baiting.

(1) “....His demo produced audible/measurable increases in the amplitude of identical music selections. A result that is impossible according to the laws of physics.....

(2) It’s regrettable that you side with a sales person caught cheating during a public event sponsored by the LAOCAS rather than embracing facts...”

(3) “....unless you accept fraud as a proper way to do business...”

Based on his article, The author appears to be neither an accepted accredited expert engineer or any accepted accredited physics expert or any other audio expert.

I’m not a lawyer but this is how the irritating article reads to me:

Sure ...the author is entitled to his personal opinions, but these quotes above trend toward suggested alleged facts of demonstrated malfeasance with an intent to deceive.

The slippery slope here is that a failure to support these claims successfully may hypothetically lead the accused parties to consider consulting with their lawyers about a possible libel defamation (claim for written defamation)


Cables conduct audio signals. They DO NOT AMPLIFY them. Ask any or all electrical engineers about what cables do and they will ALL have the same response. The author did not attack but simply stated facts and defended his opinion against the slander levied against him by that Audio society freak.

-- 13 Jul 2018 11:52 --

Audio_Guy wrote:
debertin wrote:
An interesting article on some of shananigans going on in the audio industry

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6236


I believe this contravenes CAM policy as it applies to the "Cable and Accessories" forum.


Please move it to a more appropriate thread if you are a moderator. I was in a hurry to post this before walking out the door and in my rush made a judgement error by posting it here.


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:38 am 
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Posts: 1928
Location: Kingston, ON, CA
Part of the issue is how the ear works and how the cable works, are not all on the table.

the number of people who hear differences in cable swaps numbers into the millions, for sure. Wives and family members of audio system owners, friends and so on ...

...and in that (to add) - maybe 10-15% of audio sytem owners post on forums. 25%, you say? Probably too high a figure.

the rest (the bulk of audio sytem owners and users) will never post on forums, due to threads like this, or that they simply don't have time for forums, they have busy lives.

So it is not a dismissable premise, scenario, or point in fact.

The why, of course, is pertinent to the discussion.

Since the argument has carried on for about 40+ years, we can say we are, regarding the general knowledge base of most..... missing something. And it is likely to be multiple things.

The point missed have been fleshed out and rather well. But are almost never in one spot.

When they do show up in one spot..in those rare moments...few are actually reading and grokking what was written.

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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:43 am 
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Location: GTA, ON, CA
I gave the article a quick glance. Did the author actually witness the demonstrator increase the volume or did he suspect that to be the case?


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:51 am 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
It would not be the first time that a guy doing a cable demo was caught tweaking the volume up to make the music 'more clear and revealing' when it is actually the volume that is letting you hear the details better, not the cable.
This is NOT a cable issue; it's a fraudulent demo issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:54 am 
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If the author was set out to debunk claims from cable manufactures with his SPL meter, then surely he recorded his findings….where is the objective data? I do not support the claim that a power cord can increase volume, but a demo room packed full of people, there are way too many inconsistencies for the author to even make such claims. His objective is obvious – trash talk cable manufactures, even if he doesn’t mention names!


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:19 am 
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 10:04 am
Posts: 232
Location: Saskatoon, SK, CA
Shananigans?
i think the guy in the white van was lying to me.

mustang boss 901's from Ford Shelby's personal collection (signed)
and getting rid of cause they did not fit right in the back seat
and i got them from his grandmother friends best dog cause
they did not match the colour scheme in the house.....cheap today only...

gee...sure there are sh*te salesturds out there....

there are also many fine audio shoppes that serve our hobby admirably.
cam is great, on line is here to stay
please do not neglect the expertise, knowledge, dedication and substantial investment
of our remaining shoppe owners.
personal services and back up are worth something.

maybe time for a visit again...


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:12 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
sthomas1049 wrote:
If the author was set out to debunk claims from cable manufactures with his SPL meter, then surely he recorded his findings….where is the objective data? I do not support the claim that a power cord can increase volume, but a demo room packed full of people, there are way too many inconsistencies for the author to even make such claims. His objective is obvious – trash talk cable manufactures, even if he doesn’t mention names!


It was Bob of the society that started the trash talking. Just because measurements was supplied in the link doesnt mean they weren't supplied. You are assuming too much. What inconsistencies have you noticed?


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:14 am 
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Location: Somewhere Way Out West
Teo Audio wrote:
Part of the issue is how the ear works and how the cable works, are not all on the table.

the number of people who hear differences in cable swaps numbers into the millions, for sure. Wives and family members of audio system owners, friends and so on ...


many many more people in the USA have a literal belief in the virgin birth and that angels are real and play a major part in their lives. The millions 'hear' a difference claim (note it is not an argument) is a logical fallacy for dam sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Audio Shananigans
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:59 am 
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debertin wrote:
sthomas1049 wrote:
If the author was set out to debunk claims from cable manufactures with his SPL meter, then surely he recorded his findings….where is the objective data? I do not support the claim that a power cord can increase volume, but a demo room packed full of people, there are way too many inconsistencies for the author to even make such claims. His objective is obvious – trash talk cable manufactures, even if he doesn’t mention names!


It was Bob of the society that started the trash talking. Just because measurements was supplied in the link doesnt mean they weren't supplied. You are assuming too much. What inconsistencies have you noticed?


Ummm….what measurements? Didn’t see any. Inconsistencies as in how many people were in the room at any given time. What was the background noise? Where was the measurements taken? A movement of just a half a foot can account for the difference in volume. Audio equipment is measured in a controlled environment so that the data collected is not influenced. I would think that even those who do not believe in cables would agree on that. I’m not making any assumptions – simply stating that the authors results could have been influenced by the uncontrolled environment. You, however, are making assumptions that some sort of shenanigans is going on. Where is that proof?

The whole objective of the article is to debunk expensive audio cables.


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