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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:48 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Just an observation, just a general thought about the old "straight wire with gain" idea.

On CAM in another country there are a pair of speakers for sale for the price of an expensive car. I won't name the brand name because it is probably against the rules.

The ad shows some photos with the backs removed showing what is probably 100 pounds or 10 miles (exaggerating) of copper windings and coils.
Is that not the opposite of what a speaker *should* be? Do we not want as little between the power amp and the speaker a possible? Is this not why there are advantages to a 2 way xover vs a 3 or more way xover?

I was shocked when I saw the pics, is all.

Hey, they may be the best sounding speakers on the planet. I make no criticism of how they may or may not sound. I just always thought, which I believe to be true which is this,,,,,,

In a properly designed store bought (brand name) "active" crossover, or an "active" crossover specifically designed by a pro for certain drivers in certain cabinets ,,, is the monster advantage not that there is nothing between the amplifiers and the speakers? That the amplifier is as per se "driving the speaker directly, unimpeded"?

So is this much copper between the amp and speaker not in a way detrimental?

Wondering is all.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:59 am 
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Don’t think questing design is against the rules. I am going to assume these are the speakers you are talking about.

Not sure if they are in fact coil inductors but large capacitors with a copper finish.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:00 am 
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Thank you sthomas1049

My error


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:04 am 
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I also thought WTF so I can see how one could easily make that mistake.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:57 am 
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Location: New Westminster, BC, CA
Those caps aren't just copper coloured. They are, essentially, rolls of copper sheet. BTW, those speakers are 200 kg each.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:21 am 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
retiredelectrician wrote:
Just an observation, just a general thought about the old "straight wire with gain" idea.

On CAM in another country there are a pair of speakers for sale for the price of an expensive car. I won't name the brand name because it is probably against the rules.

The ad shows some photos with the backs removed showing what is probably 100 pounds or 10 miles (exaggerating) of copper windings and coils.
Is that not the opposite of what a speaker *should* be? Do we not want as little between the power amp and the speaker a possible? Is this not why there are advantages to a 2 way xover vs a 3 or more way xover?

I was shocked when I saw the pics, is all.

Hey, they may be the best sounding speakers on the planet. I make no criticism of how they may or may not sound. I just always thought, which I believe to be true which is this,,,,,,

In a properly designed store bought (brand name) "active" crossover, or an "active" crossover specifically designed by a pro for certain drivers in certain cabinets ,,, is the monster advantage not that there is nothing between the amplifiers and the speakers? That the amplifier is as per se "driving the speaker directly, unimpeded"?

So is this much copper between the amp and speaker not in a way detrimental?

Wondering is all.


To me, there are no hard and fast rules to design the speakers except the ohms law parameters. As I've heard some crossover-less speakers such as planar, coaxial and triaxial designs that I thought sounds awesome but most of them do sound like hammered sh*%. So much for the old "straight wire with gain" theory. As usual, it's designed is totally dependent on its own execution.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Location: Montréal, QC, CA
There are many fullranger lovers because they are point source.
But it is not possible yet to build a one membrane coil speaker flat from 20 to 20,000hz.
But we soon knew that a one membrane speaker is not ideal because in fact, bass mids and highs
require different damping as membrane.

It's why multi-way speakers tend to sound better for the most of us.
Multi-way = crossover.

I see crossovers as an extension of an amp. They can change the amp's sonority.
Rare a complexe crossover sounds good. Less is better, for sure.
Bi-amping sounds a lot better with the same speakers.
The top amps don't have to deal with the big inductors.

Perso, I don't like what's between speaker and amp. (crossover, long wire, fuse etc..)
But I have to deal with...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Location: Barrie, ON, CA
retiredelectrician wrote:
I just always thought, which I believe to be true which is this,,,,,,

In a properly designed store bought (brand name) "active" crossover, or an "active" crossover specifically designed by a pro for certain drivers in certain cabinets ,,, is the monster advantage not that there is nothing between the amplifiers and the speakers? That the amplifier is as per se "driving the speaker directly, unimpeded"?

So is this much copper between the amp and speaker not in a way detrimental?

Wondering is all.


A Canadian designer equated a passive crossover with having a sponge between your amp and driver and active is like an iron rod. I have long agreed with this analogy.

I consider passive crossovers to be a mainstream compromise that audiophiles should have avoided like the plague a long long time ago.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I do understand there are no carved in stone rules about crossovers vs 2 way vs 3 way vs planars vs coax etc etc etc.

Thanks to all who took the time to chime in.

*marc mc* It was a Canadian designer who regularly pontificated to me as well about the bliss of an amplifier talking to a speaker directly without any obstacles in the way. Same Canadian designer? lol.
To me, though not speaking scientifically, it makes perfect common sense.


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