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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Location: Ardrosssan, AB, CA
Looking for anyone experienced with the V15 Type III.

I know Shure recommends 1.25g as the maximum VTF for the cartridge. I recently purchased a VN35E to replace a VN35MR and encountered some mistracking on some high frequency passages when running at 1.25g. The 35MR never had any issues with the same records that caused issues with the 35E.

I upped to 1.35, then 1.40 and still got the mistracking. I went up to 1.48 and that seemed to get rid of the mistracking.

Is it unusual to have to run the regular elliptical at a much higher VTF than the microridge? I can sort of see how this might be as the tip is larger on the 35E so might need higher VTF to fully contact the groove while the 35MR can ride deeper in the groove, at less force.

Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:29 pm 
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Location: Eastern Passage, NS, CA
Demerara wrote:
Looking for anyone experienced with the V15 Type III.

I know Shure recommends 1.25g as the maximum VTF for the cartridge. I recently purchased a VN35E to replace a VN35MR and encountered some mistracking on some high frequency passages when running at 1.25g. The 35MR never had any issues with the same records that caused issues with the 35E.

I upped to 1.35, then 1.40 and still got the mistracking. I went up to 1.48 and that seemed to get rid of the mistracking.

Is it unusual to have to run the regular elliptical at a much higher VTF than the microridge? I can sort of see how this might be as the tip is larger on the 35E so might need higher VTF to fully contact the groove while the 35MR can ride deeper in the groove, at less force.

Any thoughts?


I've one mounted on a Dual 704, had the same table and cartridge since 1978. The stylie is the Shure VN 35-E-M, basically a 0.2 x 0.7 mil elliptical diamond needle. The recommended stylus pressure is 1g (0.5 - 1.2g)
Although I never had problem (mist racking/skipping) running it at 1g, I much prefer 1.5g.
At 1g i found that it was thin sounding, no depth compared to 1.5g, which by the way is above the max recommended of 1.2g

Which table/arm is this cartridge mounted? If you find that you have good sound at 1.48g, don't be afraid of that VTF

When I was running mine at 1g, I was in fact doing some damage to my records since the needle was not stable enought while tracking.

-- 20 Feb 2018 00:34 --

By the way, all of my styles are original Shure that I bought in 1978. I still have three spare stylies, having used two of them so far.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:01 pm 
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moinau wrote:

Which table/arm is this cartridge mounted? If you find that you have good sound at 1.48g, don't be afraid of that VTF

When I was running mine at 1g, I was in fact doing some damage to my records since the needle was not stable enought while tracking.



It is a Thorens TD 125 MkII with a TP 16 tone arm ( I know the arm is not all that well loved, but seems ok to me).

I think I agree that too light is much worse than a bit heavy (1.48g) in my case. It is way better at this weight so going to keep it there, despite it exceeding Shure's recommendation.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:57 pm 
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Location: Eastern Passage, NS, CA
Demerara wrote:
moinau wrote:

Which table/arm is this cartridge mounted? If you find that you have good sound at 1.48g, don't be afraid of that VTF

When I was running mine at 1g, I was in fact doing some damage to my records since the needle was not stable enought while tracking.



It is a Thorens TD 125 MkII with a TP 16 tone arm ( I know the arm is not all that well loved, but seems ok to me).

I think I agree that too light is much worse than a bit heavy (1.48g) in my case. It is way better at this weight so going to keep it there, despite it exceeding Shure's recommendation.


Nice table, I also have the 125MKII with the same tonearm, TP16 with the TP60 headshell. I know there are better tonearm than the TP16, but this tonearm properly dialled in, will surprise lots of people. As for me, I very much like the TP16 since you can marry a variety of cartridges with it. The V15 type III is an excellent match with this tonearm/table, and dialling 1.5g/1.48g VTF you will get the best of it.

I've tried mine on the 125MKII and it was a good match, but I know keep it on the Dual.
I presently run an Empire 4000 D/II or the 2000 E/III at max VTF of 1.5g on the Thorens.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:05 am 
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Location: Sleepy Hollow, NS, CA
For the regular elliptical they recommended 0.75-1.5 Gms.

If you find it works best at 1.5 gms then go with that since it won't hurt anything.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:35 am 
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http://pubs.shure.com/view/guide/Model- ... /en-US.pdf

max 1.25g

I have the type V which has the same tracking force requirements

check the alignment


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:21 am 
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warhorse wrote:
http://pubs.shure.com/view/guide/Model-V-15-Type-3/en-US.pdf

max 1.25g

I have the type V which has the same tracking force requirements

check the alignment


Alignment is good.

As mentioned the VN35MR tracks perfectly at 1.25g but the VN35E does not and requires 1.48g to track well (on two records specifically, for others, 1.25g seems to work ok). I am going to chalk it up to different stylus profiles, rightly or wrongly.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:52 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Demerara wrote:
Looking for anyone experienced with the V15 Type III.

I know Shure recommends 1.25g as the maximum VTF for the cartridge. I recently purchased a VN35E to replace a VN35MR and encountered some mistracking on some high frequency passages when running at 1.25g. The 35MR never had any issues with the same records that caused issues with the 35E.

I upped to 1.35, then 1.40 and still got the mistracking. I went up to 1.48 and that seemed to get rid of the mistracking.

Is it unusual to have to run the regular elliptical at a much higher VTF than the microridge? I can sort of see how this might be as the tip is larger on the 35E so might need higher VTF to fully contact the groove while the 35MR can ride deeper in the groove, at less force.

Any thoughts?


The original boron cantilever stylus is quite rare...are u sure you have an original?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:22 pm 
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poupon wrote:

The original boron cantilever stylus is quite rare...are u sure you have an original?


Yes, pretty sure of it, the flip down guard is marked VN35MR.

I suppose it could be a fake.....but it did sound better than the VN35E on there now, for what that is worth.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
OK...I have a v15t3 as well and bought a Japanese replica with a .2x.7 elliptical and it's no where close even at a VTF of 2 grams. Check the usual suspects like anti skating, azimuth and overhang. These carts like a light arm like SME.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Location: London, ON, CA
The marketing gurus at most companies loved to give a range at which a cartridge would work. Almost without exception, the engineers designed the cartridge to perform at optimum at its highest recommended tracking force, which in the case of the V15 series of cartridges, is 1.5 grams.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:57 pm 
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I bought my Dual 704 while stationed in Germany in 1978. This table came fitted with a Shure V15 type III L-M with the Shure VN 35 E-M stylus.
The recommended pressure is 1g or anywhere from 0.5 to 1.20g max. The tonearm on the 704 is of the light variety.
In the 70s and 80s, VTF was set at the lowest possible pressure with the understanding that too high a pressure would be detrimental to your vinyls. From 1978 and up to the late 80s I use to vary the VTF from 0.8g to 1g max thinking it was the way to do this, until somebody took the time to explain a few facts, one, too light of aVTF will be detrimental to your vinyls, a wiggling needle while tracking is not necessarily good to your records, second, the sound will be very thin or worse, and bass response will be lacking, so basically, you’re not getting very good sound.

So, I tried 1.2g, which is the max recommended which give me a much better sound, and finally when up to 1.5g as recommended by this person. This VTF has been the same since the late 80s. Still have three original spare needles to play with.

As for the TP16 with the TP60 headshell found on the Thorens 160Mk1, 145Mk1, 125MKII which I also own since the mid 80s, I found the V15 type III set at 1.5g is also very good, although I tend to use the Empire 4000 D/II and the 2000 E/III respectively on all my Thorens, also set at 1.5g. What I like about the TP16 is, you can use a lot more cartridges type than on the Dual, since this tonearm has 16.5g eff mass, a medium mass arm. The bad, adjusting the VTA on a TP16 can sometime be a bit of a pain.

You will not do damage to your records, providing everything else is set properly like, anti skating, azimuth, overhang, etc…

This is not directed at the OP or anybody else for that matter, it’s just some of my experience with this cartridge and the Thorens arm.

Pics that came with the Dual.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:34 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
I stand corrected: 1.25g it is. I've used V15IVs, and V15Vs too long.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:15 am 
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Use whatever it takes to prevent mistracking. If 1.5 grams is necessary with the particular stylus you have, using less will damage your records.

Cheers,
Alec


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