Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
It is currently Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:00 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
Hello folks
Im currently running a moon 110lp with my vpi prime scout . Love the table its fitted with a ortofon 2m black. Love the detail it retrieves ,however im feeling that it lacks in the bass extension. I have a bryston 14bsst amp with a Bat vk 30 taking care of the front end . Cable is a audio sensiblity phono cable . Im sure there are products out there that can dig deep into the low frequencies equal to that of a digital source. The moon phono pre is a fantastic unit for detail and air but bass is taking a back seat as a result . My speakers are full range von schweikert audio. Im looking to get the bass i get from my cd'd and digital player . Im hopefully not in a pipe dream to attain this . What are your opinions with lp bass retreval ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:43 am
Posts: 1154
Location: East York, ON, CA
Are you comparing identically mastered CD's and LP's at the same volume level?

The reason I ask is that most remastered recordings sound more bassy because of the use of dynamic range compression. In other words there may be nothing wrong.

Second, I would look carefully at the specs of the cartridge and phono cable. MM's like the ortofon 2m black are fairly sensitive to the capacitance of the cartridge and phono cable. Ortofon recommends 150-300 pF for your cartridge. I had the audio sensibility cable and I measured it somewhere in the 150-200 pF range (unfortunately, I have misplaced my notes on the exact reading). Your phono stage comes with a default loading of 100pF, so you may be able to gain some advantage my changing the setting to 0pF.

That's all I can think of.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
thats an interesting point .... very well explained im going to giv it a try ( setting phono to 0 )
Best regards ...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 730
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
LP most likely high/low pass filtered at the mastering stage among other things.


Gary


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:04 am
Posts: 411
Location: Brampton, ON, CA
Capacitance (total cable to stylus) for MM can really effect the sound, or cause loss in freq response. Have you measured the capacitance of the cables from stylus to phono pre? You need a capacitance meter and measure with cart leads off.

_________________
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
So will to much capacitance cause it or to little ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
Tried setting the capacitance to “0” no difference at all sadly ..


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:42 am
Posts: 1413
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
are you certain the cart is set up correctly?
try lowering the VTA, that should give more bass response.

_________________
Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
I was set up by audio Eden personnel I’m hoping it would be correct but wouldn’t hurt to check i guess


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:34 pm
Posts: 267
Location: azilda, ON, CA
I recently got a Gold Note PH-1 phono stage and the bass that I get is very textured and deep. This is with a Denon DL-301mk2, Parks Audio Budgie 1254Cinemag SUT , ARC SP9 and a Bryston 4bst. I had to turn down the bass settings on both my GoldenEar Triton Two's and my Paradigm 2100 v2 sub to very low levels.
Cheers, Doug


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:18 am
Posts: 4772
Location: Surrey , BC, CA
what is your CD player? It seems that you are comparing in wrong category....means your phono is not on par with the digital you have...


Last edited by libor on Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:20 pm
Posts: 254
Location: Kamloops CB
Another option would be the Schitt Audio analog tone controls. $150usd

I don't know if it goes before or after the phono but it also has a bypass switch for critical listening.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:43 am
Posts: 1115
Location: Stratford, ON, CA
Hi,

Three things. The Orto 2M series (I had a Bronze) tend to have a very lean bass. Try a Denon MC. Second, as noted by another poster above, the very deepest bass notes, which are available on CD, are generally filtered out for a vinyl master. If your cartridge has very high compliance and if a vinyl record is not dead flat the combination of very low notes and a warped record can induce very large woofer excursions, particularly with bass reflex designs. Third, in both dynamic range and frequency extension vinyl cannot match CD, even if analog can sound smoother and more realistically present in the critical mid-range.

Cheers,
David Neice

_________________
Chinese Proverb: 'Man who waits for roast duck to fly into mouth, waits very, very long time'.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 12:54 pm
Posts: 6265
Location: Dodge City, NB, CA
buybye88 wrote:
Hi,

Three things. The Orto 2M series (I had a Bronze) tend to have a very lean bass. Try a Denon MC. Second, as noted by another poster above, the very deepest bass notes, which are available on CD, are generally filtered out for a vinyl master. If your cartridge has very high compliance and if a vinyl record is not dead flat the combination of very low notes and a warped record can induce very large woofer excursions, particularly with bass reflex designs. Third, in both dynamic range and frequency extension vinyl cannot match CD, even if analog can sound smoother and more realistically present in the critical mid-range.

Cheers,
David Neice

I would add to this that the 110LP itself might not be helping either. I have one that I keep as a backup in case my daily driver breaks down and I wouldn't consider bass it's strong point. At least not in my system.

_________________
BE KIND TO THE UNKIND...THEY NEED IT THE MOST.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:43 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
This is what I’m thinking now . The 2m black I’ve heard had great bass, maybe I need a upgrade to my phono pre... any opinions on one that has stellar bass depths ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group