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 Post subject: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:56 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Orangeville, ON, CA
I tried to add this to an existing post but it didn't work.I would like some input on AC noise.ie whether it affects system sound and whether the elimination devices available make a difference?


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:38 pm
Posts: 1098
Location: woodbridge, ON, CA
ac noise does effect the sound recently bought Blue Circle power conditioning products its made improvement wouldnt be without it there a saying if electricity were water your equipment would drinking from the sewer


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:56 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Orangeville, ON, CA
jnaudio wrote:
ac noise does effect the sound recently bought Blue Circle power conditioning products its made improvement wouldnt be without it there a saying if electricity were water your equipment would drinking from the sewer



I agree.I have a device that measures AC noise and there is lots.Blue Circle Outpost II eliminates most of it and I think the difference is audible.I guess I'm looking for justification of what I spent.


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:38 pm
Posts: 1098
Location: woodbridge, ON, CA
i use the blue circle outpost and 6 outlet thingee even more improvement than just the outpost alone


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:57 am
Posts: 25
Location: Mississauga, ON, CA
I notice in the spring and fall when the furnaces and AC units are not running, there is an improved quality. Maybe I should get me one of them conditioners!


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:41 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
birdieman wrote:
jnaudio wrote:
ac noise does effect the sound recently bought Blue Circle power conditioning products its made improvement wouldnt be without it there a saying if electricity were water your equipment would drinking from the sewer



I agree.I have a device that measures AC noise and there is lots.


What device do you recommend to measure noise on AC Line?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:56 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Orangeville, ON, CA
atipod wrote:
birdieman wrote:
jnaudio wrote:
ac noise does effect the sound recently bought Blue Circle power conditioning products its made improvement wouldnt be without it there a saying if electricity were water your equipment would drinking from the sewer



I agree.I have a device that measures AC noise and there is lots.


What device do you recommend to measure noise on AC Line?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:45 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
atipod wrote:
birdieman wrote:
jnaudio wrote:
ac noise does effect the sound recently bought Blue Circle power conditioning products its made improvement wouldnt be without it there a saying if electricity were water your equipment would drinking from the sewer



I agree.I have a device that measures AC noise and there is lots.


What device do you recommend to measure noise on AC Line?

Thanks


I have a Dr. Power Line Monitor, manufactured by AlphaLab in Salt Lake City. Phone number: 801-487-9492. It also says Entech on the box. It monitors RF noise 300khz-700khz that is present on a 120VAC 60hz power outlet. When you plug this device into the wall outlet, you can hear a static like sound coming out of the speaker of the device. The dirtier the power, the louder it gets. I can definitely hear a huge difference in the power coming out of my Panamax power conditioner.

I bought this from a fellow Camer. I have no idea where you can get one, other than maybe calling the manufacturer.


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:17 am
Posts: 14362
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
birdieman wrote:
I tried to add this to an existing post but it didn't work.I would like some input on AC noise.ie whether it affects system sound and whether the elimination devices available make a difference?

That depends on the circumstances. What are yours?

_________________
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:43 am
Posts: 97
Location: Kelowna, BC, CA
AC noise will for sure vary from location to location. Some hifi owners may have little AC noise and would benefit "less" from a power conditioner.

I have an Audience Adept Response AR6-TS. It costs a bit, and I have used less expensive units but they did not come close to what this unit does.

It is the first conditioner I have owned, where you definitely want to plug your power amp into the conditioner, and not the wall. The difference is very noticeable. With other conditioners, I had to plug directly into the wall outlet or risk losing dynamics. Not so with the Audience. Dynamics increase, bass tightens up, and highs are really cleaned up big time.

I have tried this with 3 different amps, including my newest which is a tube amp, the Air Tight ATM1-S.

I also have my Audience plugged into a dedicated circuit, although the benefit I get from the dedicated circuit versus plugging the unit into the shared circuit, is minimal. The dedicated circuit, is not nearly as big of an upgrade as using the Audience plugged into a shared circuit.

However, I tell everyone I know to first upgrade their in-wall power receptacles before getting a conditioner, or better power cord, or better interconnects, etc. That alone makes a big improvement, especially firming up what you hear. The builder special outlets we all have in our homes, are about 75 cents apiece at Home Depot. Low grade copper and loose connections are not what you want to plug your gear into. You will hear the difference. For what it's worth, I use the Wattgate 381 RH AU EVO. They are not cheap, but worth every penny.

I've been at this over 40 years now, and I wish all those years ago, or even say 10 years ago, that I had started by first upgrading my AC receptacles before upgrading other accessories.


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:41 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Quote:
I have a Dr. Power Line Monitor, manufactured by AlphaLab in Salt Lake City. Phone number: 801-487-9492. It also says Entech on the box. It monitors RF noise 300khz-700khz that is present on a 120VAC 60hz power outlet. When you plug this device into the wall outlet, you can hear a static like sound coming out of the speaker of the device. The dirtier the power, the louder it gets. I can definitely hear a huge difference in the power coming out of my Panamax power conditioner.

I bought this from a fellow Camer. I have no idea where you can get one, other than maybe calling the manufacturer.



Thanks!

I just ordered one from http://slt.co/Products/PowerLineMeters/

It should arrive next week.


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:56 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Orangeville, ON, CA
This is one of the devices I use for all but the amp.Virtually eliminates noise.I offer the following quote from Arthur Salvatore who I believe knows his stuff,

"MONSTER CABLE HTS1000/2000 REFERENCE POWER CENTER- A fantastic value for the money. It improves virtually everything, though subtly, except for amplifiers and tube-analog at late night.

Video and telephone reception is also enhanced, with the appropriate cables included as extras. There is even a $ 100,000 "warranty" for connected components that are damaged by AC surges etc. The 2000 has 4 extra outlets. One of the best values in audio."


This device can be found at quite low prices on Ebay.Also,when my house was built I had a dedicated line run to my audio station with heavier cable and hospital grade receptacles.I have a Blue Circle Outpost II plugged in to the wall outlet as well as the Monster Power Centre.My amp is also plugged into the wall with all other components plugged into the Monster.I have an older Blue Circle BC86 in the circuit with the furnace.Looking for another on CAM and Ebay to plug in with the fridge.


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 Post subject: Re: AC noise
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:22 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Grande Prairie, AB, CA
One thing people need to realize is that "noise" is not just high frequency RF inducing voltage and current on your power lines. That does occur, but a much more common form of "noise" would be harmonics from modulating power supplies, waste energy from rectification and other items. It has been known for many years that modifying a sinewave for on/off time controllers (solid state dimmers) produces horrendous RF. Electron beam devices (tube gear, CRT displays, etc.) produce horrendous RF. Power supplies that rectify AC to DC to power all of our modern electronics dump insane amounts of current at harmonics above 60Hz.

Years ago, when electronic ballasts became mainstream, I was doing a commercial building with new T8 fixtures. I balanced the loads on all phases (3), so my neutral current should have been zero. Instead, it was 30 amps (on 15 amp circuits). We determined that it was harmonics from the modulating power supplies inside each ballast. It was occuring at 120Hz and up. The neutral was getting quite warm, but there was little we could do about it. This issue was occuring nationwide to the point that the CEC stakeholders and advisory committees considered increasing neutral conductor sizing requirements.

Now, we have homes full of LED bulbs with dimmers and each one is rectifying AC and generating "noise". Our homes are populated with more modulating power supplies than at anytime in human history. We have microwave signals everywhere, from wifi to cellular. Basically, our electricity is noisier than at any time in our history. And with all our supply and distribution and installation done by the lowest bidder, it is arguably the least robust and reliable (performance wise) in our history.


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