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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 am 
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Location: scarborough, ON, CA
It is a ss amp and I’m ok with leaving it on.
I have a tube pre amp that I do not want to leave on.
Keeping in mind the powering off sequence, will I harm anything if I shut the pre off first and leave the amp on?
I do have a mute button on the pre, which I use.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:48 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Power amps have an ideal operating temperature, hence the manufactures recommendation. There is no harm turning them off – just means you have wait longer for them to reach that temp once powered back up again. If you do not hear anything, loud pop, etc, when powering off your preamp while it is muted then you should not be causing any damage to the amplifier. Same with powering up your pre.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:38 am 
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Location: North GTA, ON, CA
I also have a tube pre and SS power amp. The pre gets muted then turned off after each use (NOS tubes are expensive!) but the power amp stays on 24/7, just as its manufacturer recommends in the owner's manual.

No problems after a few years of doing this.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:54 pm
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
I turn things on pre->power and off power->pre because I don't want to take the chance of the loud pop actually blowing anything. I don't know if this is a thing of the past but what I've always read/heard it so...

As for your power amp, yeah it can stay on no problem. Unless it's Class A, then your better half might wonder why the electricity is really high all the sudden LOL


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:08 am 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
You may want to consider that turning your preamp on and off is putting unnecessary wear'n'tear on the preamp tube(s) due to the heating/cooling/voltage surge at turn-on.
It's not like a tube power amp that runs hot; you do have to turn those off when not using them to conserve their lifetime.
Tube preamps aren't like that. Mine is on 24/7 unless I'm going away for a while. It's warmed-up and ready to go and sound its best at all times. ( and my tubes last for years)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:37 am 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
Do what you think makes sense.

I turn mine off.

Don't like to risk catastrophic failure (or fire) when not home.
Also, left on you'd be more susceptible to a surge, power outage, lightning storm causing damage etc.

Heck, I've been home and lights have gone off, on, off, on - that sort of thing does no good to electronics because the spike when power turns back on is usually (can be) damaging. My equipment is happy for it.

Again, there are guys here that will say they have left it on for the past 15 years with no problems, so it's what makes sense to you.

Electronic warm up time is, quite frankly, minimal.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:07 am 
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Electronics warm-up time is not "minimal".
It can take several hours for a solid state amp to start sounding good and 24 hours to sound its best, unless it's Class 'A'. That's why manufacturers advise you not to turn them off. It's the same for a tube preamp; it takes much longer to warm up to optimal operating temperatures. Preamps and CD players with small tubes in them often have a master switch at the back. That's because the manufacturers advise you not to turn them off and only leave a switch on the front to turn-off the display. The tubes are still lit-up inside.
Tube amps run much hotter so it takes less time to warm up....usually an hour or two.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:00 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
That's good for manufacturer, buyer will buy another amp in 15 yrs, as electrolytic caps in old one will be half dead.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:09 am 
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Location: Fairport Beach (in Pickering), ON, CA
deltaV wrote:
That's good for manufacturer, buyer will buy another amp in 15 yrs, as electrolytic caps in old one will be half dead.


Or just buy a 20 year old Jeff Rowland, Krell, or Mark Levinson, etc and have it completely recapped. You'll have a great amp at the fraction of the cost of a new one. And it can always be re-capped. Go talk to a tech about recapping some of the newer high end amps ... did someone say it was electronics recycling day coming up! I think you'll get about $2/pound for the transformer and a few dollars for the aluminum cooling fins.

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Collecting vintage tube Pilot (Pilotone) HiFi gear.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:18 am 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
deltaV wrote:
That's good for manufacturer, buyer will buy another amp in 15 yrs, as electrolytic caps in old one will be half dead.


Electrolytics fail quicker when left un-powered. They have a shelf life of a couple years. Leaving the gear on conserves their life.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:24 am 
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AVguy wrote:
Electronics warm-up time is not "minimal".
It can take several hours for a solid state amp to start sounding good and 24 hours to sound its best, unless it's Class 'A'. That's why manufacturers advise you not to turn them off. It's the same for a tube preamp; it takes much longer to warm up to optimal operating temperatures. Preamps and CD players with small tubes in them often have a master switch at the back. That's because the manufacturers advise you not to turn them off and only leave a switch on the front to turn-off the display. The tubes are still lit-up inside.
Tube amps run much hotter so it takes less time to warm up....usually an hour or two.


No offense, but - "hog wash".
Up to 24 hours? Nope.

Here's the deal, show me one piece of creditable proof of such. Electrical theory 101...

Circuits & capacitors (aside from reconditioning caps) take minimal time to get to operating temp, correct voltage, amperage, etc.

Your ears are warming up more than anything.

Tubes? 15-20 mins perhaps.

This, again, is back to manufacture "aura"; a somewhat objectional recommendation to build "oooh and ahhh"; no more practical truth than thousands of hours of break-in.

Electrical Circuits, assuming a good power supply and proper incoming voltage, don't require much time to get to spec and "warm up".

Believe what you must, or - quote some real electronic theory stating such.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:31 am 
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Electrolytics are disposable by design.
They die faster when used rarely (stored for longer than 6 months at a time), or when run 24/7.
Shelf life is only valid for caps never used.
Best routine is to use amp once a week, that way it keeps running for 50 yrs.
Power switch is there for a good reason.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:35 am 
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This is from another forum but a very trustworthy member had conducted temperature measurements on tubes to see how long they take to get up to steady operating temperatures.

Turns out it's ~20-30 minutes, BUT the majority of the warm-up is done in the first 5 minutes!

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/in ... ents.3810/

Solid state can take some hours to really stablize (to my ears), things tend to smooth out a bit once my XA30.5 has been on a couple hours. NOTE: it's not some day and night difference, it's subtle at best.

Some people report dacs taking several days to get the crystal and circuitry to perfect operating temps and people claim they can hear the difference. I can't tell the difference between a few hours to a few days.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:52 am 
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I have no doubt "to your ears" it sounds better..., but does it?

Psycho-acoustical phenomenon likely.

Like swearing the car runs smoother after your oil change.

Assuming correct operating temp should make a difference, how long does it take for your amp to hit 25-30 degrees? And, more interestingly, what could possibly happen in the next 23. whatever hours to cause the amp to operate differently? Once your car is effectively "warmed up" does it continue to drive better and better...? There is actually a point where excessive heat will reduce performance, but - that's another story.

I will admit, I do have a particular amp that seems to "sound better" once it's been on for 15-20 mins. It's a Class A Luxman; however, I suspect watching the warm up light go off probably makes me think it does.

Circuits, designed properly, become stable very quickly. Heck, just get out your meter and see how long it takes to be within bias spec...

Anyways, it's our hobby - each and everyone of you have a right to believe what you like. It's just that nobody has proven it really makes a difference yet.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:14 am 
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JGP wrote:
I have no doubt "to your ears" it sounds better..., but does it?

Psycho-acoustical phenomenon likely.

Like swearing the car runs smoother after your oil change.

Assuming correct operating temp should make a difference, how long does it take for your amp to hit 25-30 degrees? And, more interestingly, what could possibly happen in the next 23. whatever hours to cause the amp to operate differently? Once your car is effectively "warmed up" does it continue to drive better and better...? There is actually a point where excessive heat will reduce performance, but - that's another story.

I will admit, I do have a particular amp that seems to "sound better" once it's been on for 15-20 mins. It's a Class A Luxman; however, I suspect watching the warm up light go off probably makes me think it does.

Circuits, designed properly, become stable very quickly. Heck, just get out your meter and see how long it takes to be within bias spec...

Anyways, it's our hobby - each and everyone of you have a right to believe what you like. It's just that nobody has proven it really makes a difference yet.


If you're talking objectively I would agree with you. But most audiophiles live in a subjective world for them warm-up time to reach the thermal equilibrium of any equipment is a very important factor when listening critically. Case in point, most of my equipment are in standby mode 24/7. Heck, even my cassette deck is in standby mode. My power amp users 260W on standby mode, 390W on idle and uses 3800W maximum on full power. And you're right it's in standby mode together with my preamp 24/7. That way I don't have to wait around for the temperature within the system to become spatially and temporally uniform.


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