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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Hi, I'd like to hear your thoughts and experiences related to mass loading Totem's classic floorstanders lineup - Forest, Hawk, Sttaf, Arro. I've recenty bought a pair of Sttafs sand filled and am very impressed with the results compared to non-filled standard issue. In my system and in my room the sound is much more controlled, tight bass and mids, and I also have a feeling the bass goes deeper. But the main impression is better dynamics and musicality throughout the frequency range.
I've heard that Totem voices their speakers non-filled, which makes sense from manufacturer's point of view, but I also heard many who claim mass loading Totem speakers is a must. Based on my experience with Sttafs I can say I agree, at least for this model.
Would love to hear your thoughts on mass loading Forests, Hawks and Arros. Or Sttafs.
Thanks
V


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:41 pm 
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I've had Arros and Sttafs in the past and mass loading improved both. It also improved things when I mass loaded the stands I had for M1s, M1 Sigs and my current Mani-2s on 4 post stands. Better bass control, quicker, little more punch.

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Video: Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, Totem Mani-2s, M1 centre, Rega P6/RB2K, 17D3, Ph1, Paradigm sub, Totem Mite surr/back


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Thanks for sharing. I'm really interested in mass loading Forests and will probably be looking for a pair soon.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
I'm curious as well. I've had the Hawks for several years. I didn't load them up and always liked their sound. I have played them at ear bleed levels with a lot of varied music and always clear, tight sound. If others have loaded them up and found genuine improvement I'd try as well.

Cheers.

Michael B.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:12 am 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Sand works, but can be messy. If you can find steel shot (gun stores usually carry it) rather than lead shot it will also work well.

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Video: Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, Totem Mani-2s, M1 centre, Rega P6/RB2K, 17D3, Ph1, Paradigm sub, Totem Mite surr/back


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:16 am 
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I really hope somebody who had mass loaded Forests will chime in ...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:24 am 
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Just curious but ... wouldn't using steel shot or any metal for that matter play havoc on the magnet? Or am I missing something.


Last edited by Robbie California on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:53 am 
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kb007 wrote:
Sand works, but can be messy. If you can find steel shot (gun stores usually carry it) rather than lead shot it will also work well.


I'm just going by instinct but I would think sand or similar materials that can pack together well would be best. Lead would probably work better than steel shot since it's soft and more likely to "settle" such that it wouldn't vibrate. I'd prefer the mess of sand to lead shot.

Steel, I would think would be least desirable given it will probably continue to sing and never pack as sand would. The better the isolation from the 2 chambers the less the problem; but in a hobby where we seem to measure things by the immeasurable, I suspect the effect of steel shot would probably be quite measurable. I would not however be worried about the effects or interaction with speaker magnets as the 2 chambers are too far apart.

Just my impression.

Cheers.

Michael B.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:17 am 
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When I still had my Hawks a few years ago now - I tried them both ways. Mass loaded with lead shot, I found the focus became sort of less visual and the bass was leaner - maybe a more vagueness to the sound is the best way to describe it. So I ran them unloaded - which is from what I understand the way the Totem voices them in the factory.
Try both ways and see for your self (although removal of the material can be a bit of a challenge. I had 1 lead bb that just would not seem to want to come out - but did eventually).
Cheers
jp


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:23 am 
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J. P. wrote:
When I still had my Hawks a few years ago now - I tried them both ways. Mass loaded with lead shot, I found the focus became sort of less visual and the bass was leaner - maybe a more vagueness to the sound is the best way to describe it. So I ran them unloaded - which is from what I understand the way the Totem voices them in the factory.
Try both ways and see for your self (although removal of the material can be a bit of a challenge. I had 1 lead bb that just would not seem to want to come out - but did eventually).
Cheers
jp


J.P. this is interesting as the first observation in the opposite direction. Can you share which electronics you used to drive the Hawks and also the speaker position?
Thanks
V


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:36 am 
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I would have used my YBA Integre' DT amp initially and then a SimAudio Moon W3 amp and P5 preamp. My room is small 9' wide x 12' long x 7' high. The speakers were placed approx 14 inches from the side wall and approx 18 inches from the back wall. I had them (using the Claws) sitting on oak cutting boards with spikes through the carpet to the concrete floor. I believe cables would have been Canare 4S11 with JA Michell bananas.
I do have a theory that maybe Totem did the mass loading option more to increase the stability of the speaker due to their tippyness rather than to change the sound (but that is just a hunch on my part). The change was subtle to my ears anyway.
jp


Last edited by J. P. on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:40 am 
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J. P. wrote:
I would have used my YBA Integre' DT amp initially and then a SimAudio Moon W3 amp and P5 preamp. My room is small 9' wide x 12' long x 7' high. The speakers were placed approx 14 inches from the side wall and approx 18 inches from the back wall.
jp


Electronics is great, maybe it was the room or maybe Hawks are just that way. The impact seems to be quite opposite with Arros and Sttafs.

Now, I really hope someone with experience with mass loading Forests will appear in the forum.

Thanks to all who shared their thoughts, really appreciated!
V


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:22 am 
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Here is another thread on this subject:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=217
jp


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:26 am 
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Location: Burlington, ON, CA
VegliaAudio wrote:
I really hope somebody who had mass loaded Forests will chime in ...


The Forests have a bottom port and compartment for mass loading, they also sell a cap for it, even though they don't sell bass port plugs. I mass loaded with 12.5 lbs of lead shot (non-magnetic) per speaker. I would recommend inserting a plastic bag to make it easier for removal. To be honest, I did this some years ago, but I don't think I perceived a big difference. I'm not about to try and take to shot out now to 'analize' it. :lol: I bought the bag of shot at a gun supply place iirc....maybe it was a shooting club, I don't remember. But I don't hear difference much with cables. I found I could manipulate the sound more with cotton in the rear ports, but the speakers pretty well just blow it out anyway if you get them really going. :mrgreen:
The speakers are relatively revealing, where I hear big differences is in software quality. I run them with a Pass X-250.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:18 am 
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Steel shot isn't going to ring, sing or dance any kind of jig, it's just safer than messing around with lead. I believe all of the middle line Totem floor standers have a separate "box" on the bottom that is separate from the drivers, so shouldn't be any magnetic impacts either.

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Video: Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, Totem Mani-2s, M1 centre, Rega P6/RB2K, 17D3, Ph1, Paradigm sub, Totem Mite surr/back


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