Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
It is currently Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:51 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Forum rules


The Cables forum is intended for those who believe cables make a difference in how their systems sound. If you do not believe in cables please do not post in any threads that are discussing specific cables or asking for help with cables, and limit your participation to threads where the OP intends to debate about cables. Posts which are argumentative, offensive, or break our rules may be deleted. Repeat offenders will be banned from posting in this forum.



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:39 am
Posts: 2
Location: montreal, QC, CA
i


Last edited by seb7772 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:25 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 4918
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
@seb7772, you are surprised to hear so little difference between the sound of the two cables, when the difference between their prices is so big ?

You must be new to this hobby. Welcome to CAM !

It's not really possible to comment meaningfully. Associated gear, connections, listening conditions, type of music are some of the variables you don't mention.

And apart from that, just about everyone at CAM is aware of what is commonly called the Law of Diminishing Returns, which says that the amount of improvement you get for a dollar diminishes the more you spend.

Now the "law" is a little disingenuous, because when a system provides a lot of musical information, a very little bit more information may give a large increase in musical pleasure. But most CAMmers are also aware that some equipment is built for and sold to people with more money than audio knowledge.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:04 pm
Posts: 1775
Location: saskatoon, SK, CA
if you go by 25% of system value is cabling well at 9k wires on lets say u run the venere s at 7k , as Savage used to say, "well there's yer problem".

the rest of the system could be the weak link.

_________________
You like that redgren grumbholdt reference? Yeah. Well, guess what? I made him up. You really are your father's children. Think for yourselves. Don't be sheep.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:56 am 
Online
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:36 pm
Posts: 3646
Location: Vernon, BC, CA
Personally I wouldn't be using SF Venere paired with NAD Masters as a benchmark for testing differences in gear. Everything from sources to cables I tried introducing to my M22/M12 setup sounded almost the same. That is a good or a bad thing depending on how you look at it.

$$$ doesn't always equal performance increase with cables but why even consider $9500 speaker cables with a system like that? 12TC are perfectly fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:05 pm 
Offline
Dealer/Sponsor

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:33 am
Posts: 1183
Location: Kingston, ON, CA
Delivered with a bit of unhappiness, the line goes "10x the price for 10% of an improvement".

It's the same (Soft) rule in almost all areas of human endeavor.

As the markets and people are built this way, they (people) can have a hard time recognizing when something truly different comes along. Something that breaks those rules.

The systems are usually so established that it takes a near full on forced explosion in the given stable market, to break up the given status quo. then, so many people are invested in the given status quo, that most are unaware and the rest actively fight to keep the status quo as it is. Even if they don't really like it. Apathy, ignorance, and desire tend to keep given markets from forms of change.

I have come up against this all the time, across multiple fields of technology and endeavor. The kind of things, or scenarios..... that most don't even recognize as existing.

Real change, as they say, leaves no prior extant top dogs intact. It sweeps everyone away. Hence their fight.

_________________
(Ken Hotte, of) Teo Audio


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:15 am
Posts: 4599
Location: Newmarket, ON, CA
-


Last edited by b3733366 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:57 pm 
Offline
Dealer/Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:14 am
Posts: 1308
Location: Davidson, SK, CA
b3733366 wrote:
My comment ... Be happy! ... would have been a bit of a bummer the other way. ;)
Word

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

_________________
Davidson Home Audio Designs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:55 am
Posts: 341
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Teo Audio wrote:
Delivered with a bit of unhappiness, the line goes "10x the price for 10% of an improvement".

It's the same (Soft) rule in almost all areas of human endeavor.

As the markets and people are built this way, they (people) can have a hard time recognizing when something truly different comes along. Something that breaks those rules.

The systems are usually so established that it takes a near full on forced explosion in the given stable market, to break up the given status quo. then, so many people are invested in the given status quo, that most are unaware and the rest actively fight to keep the status quo as it is. Even if they don't really like it. Apathy, ignorance, and desire tend to keep given markets from forms of change.

I have come up against this all the time, across multiple fields of technology and endeavor. The kind of things, or scenarios..... that most don't even recognize as existing.

Real change, as they say, leaves no prior extant top dogs intact. It sweeps everyone away. Hence their fight.


So “real change” justifies the extremely high prices your company charges for the cables you promote on this site? Don’t your speaker cables go for more than $10k a pair?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:51 pm 
Offline
Dealer/Sponsor

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:18 am
Posts: 304
Location: Etobicoke, ON, CA
I believe you will find that most cable manufacturers build a 'line' of cable products that sound similar to each other. The reason for this is the powers that be prefer that particular 'sonic signature'.

The fact that these were sold 'used' at a drastically reduced price should give you a clue as to their actual worth which is very subjective at best. One man's treasure is another's trash. I also suspect that there may be a much larger sonic difference that you suspect that would be more readily revealed with better loudspeakers.

Try to be contented with whatever works well regardless of price.

J.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:18 pm
Posts: 886
Location: St. John's, NL, CA
I've noticed differences in speaker cables and unbalanced interconnects. Not so much for power cables. I think my power is relatively clean coming into the house.

But, I keep it fairly reasonable and use fairly pedestrian grade Kimbers 4PR and Ultalink Ambiance cables. I've found both to sound reasonably good.

If I had a 50K system, I'd probably spend more on cables...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:55 pm
Posts: 1945
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Why has the OP edited his post removing the original question? :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:45 pm
Posts: 17882
Location: Peterborough, ON, CA
sthomas1049 wrote:
Why has the OP edited his post removing the original question? :roll:


...not cool...shouldn't be allowed...

_________________
“This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. And, uh, lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:32 pm
Posts: 3149
Location: North GTA, ON, CA
sthomas1049 wrote:
Why has the OP edited his post removing the original question? :roll:


Zut alors! Posters remorse!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:43 am
Posts: 2035
Location: Québec, QC, CA
We should put ELOS on that case.... :idea:


Attachments:
Ich5LWu.jpg
Ich5LWu.jpg [ 68.37 KiB | Viewed 596 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 cable difference
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 1473
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
Genetic wrote:
We should put ELOS on that case.... :idea:


:lol:

_________________
Too much music not enough time..


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: allhifi, kwadzilla and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group