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 Post subject: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:05 pm 
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I notice there are more and more ads with mid fi receivers like 2200 series Marantz that have been upgraded with new parts and the asking price is 3 to 4 times the "going rate". This trend of asking $600 for a 2230 (30 watt receiver) that has new power supply caps, audio path caps, cleaned switches and pots, bulbs replaced etc..is becoming more common place.

The question is, do they sell and what level of vintage audio knowledge would the buyer have that would convince him to spend a kings ransom for a 45 year old receiver with low wattage? Why do you never see the superior Harman Kardon 930 fully upgraded with new components? It always seems to be Marantz units, perhaps because they are easier to find. This trend is an example of how any decent equipment on CAM for same is over priced by at least 25% as compared to a few years ago. When there were more CAM regulars, the prices were lower. Now with more and more regulars dropping off due to lack of interest or maybe they don't flip audio anymore, whatver, there are far fewer regulars who visit the site in general. I can think of at least 25 hard core regulars that do not visit the site any more.

These high gouge prices will be more and more discouraging for someone new to vintage audio. As it is, most of the ads listed are from flippers although they are not listed as premium sellers for example.

This site is changing in terms of overall volume of sellers and visitors. I wonder if it's worth it for the niche high end and further (esoteric market). Can they only find the local dealers on this site? I have to ask one more time, who spends $600 on a Marantz 2230?


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Given vintage Marantz build quality, spending for recap (provided it's done the right way, no fake Chinese caps from ebay, properly matched caps, good soldering)
virtually guarantees the buyer a reliable unit for the next 40 years. It's very close to having unheard in the industry 40-yrs warranty, sort of.
That particular model (2230) may not be worth it in terms of sound, never liked it, but something like 2285 (not B) or 2325 or Model 19 definitely is, no matter what the price is.
For my own units, I tend to recap power supply only, to preserve original sound, unless the stereo is obviously high mileage, then it's recapping all the way.
On a side note, it's hard to match caps these days.
The statement above is true for most higher end vintage brands (Sansui, McIntosh, Pioneer, Dynaco, etc).
One more thing, the biggest filter caps (usually the big 2, sometimes 4) die last, unless abused.
The smallest 1uF/similar capacitors usually die first.


Last edited by deltaV on Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Musicware4u wrote:
I notice there are more and more ads with mid fi receivers like 2200 series Marantz that have been upgraded with new parts and the asking price is 3 to 4 times the "going rate". This trend of asking $600 for a 2230 (30 watt receiver) that has new power supply caps, audio path caps, cleaned switches and pots, bulbs replaced etc..is becoming more common place.

The question is, do they sell and what level of vintage audio knowledge would the buyer have that would convince him to spend a kings ransom for a 45 year old receiver with low wattage? Why do you never see the superior Harman Kardon 930 fully upgraded with new components? It always seems to be Marantz units, perhaps because they are easier to find. This trend is an example of how any decent equipment on CAM for same is over priced by at least 25% as compared to a few years ago. When there were more CAM regulars, the prices were lower. Now with more and more regulars dropping off due to lack of interest or maybe they don't flip audio anymore, whatver, there are far fewer regulars who visit the site in general. I can think of at least 25 hard core regulars that do not visit the site any more.

These high gouge prices will be more and more discouraging for someone new to vintage audio. As it is, most of the ads listed are from flippers although they are not listed as premium sellers for example.

This site is changing in terms of overall volume of sellers and visitors. I wonder if it's worth it for the niche high end and further (esoteric market). Can they only find the local dealers on this site? I have to ask one more time, who spends $600 on a Marantz 2230?

Someone who wants it and has the money. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Apologies, I think I may have started it about 17 years ago on eBay. Maybe 16 years.

I did an advert for a marantz unit, in a very specific way, with the right text and the right photos and I got twice as much for a Marantz 2250 -on eBay-...than anyone had ever gotten before.


And the race was on.

So yeah, these things start somewhere, someone had to jump or do it first before a gold rush starts...and that person was literally ...me. (from my observance--and I pay attention, I look very very closely at this sort of market and psychology stuff)

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Last edited by Teo Audio on Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:30 pm 
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:lol:

-- 01 Nov 2017 20:34 --

Who pays 1500$ for a Nak Dragon?
People do.
That's it that's all.

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Gouging? Really? I just spent $400 in parts and labour to replace 68 components in my 1550. Why? Because I like the sound and it has been with me since I was a teenager. Gouge? Really? Should I crap on my tech and ask him to work for, say $20 an hour?

If you don't want to buy something, walk away. If you think a different brand is better, or if you like it more, then go buy it and have it restored. And if somebody really wants that 15 watt shiny box of sound, then let them have their fun. Sometimes you buy what you always wanted as a kid; or had one and wished you had never sold it years ago. Motivations are hard to determine.

And $400 for 10 to 12 hours labour these days is cheap....when your BMW dealership charges $130 an hour..... and a crappy burger meal at McDonalds is $10. It's all a matter of perspective.

Try sharing something constructive or informative. Whinging over what other people spend on their equipment is neither.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:38 pm 
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+1...
There are alot of people with passion for equip. out here!

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:43 pm 
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brownslane wrote:
Gouging? Really? I just spent $400 in parts and labour to replace 68 components in my 1550. Why? Because I like the sound and it has been with me since I was a teenager. Gouge? Really? Should I crap on my tech and ask him to work for, say $20 an hour?

If you don't want to buy something, walk away. If you think a different brand is better, or if you like it more, then go buy it and have it restored. And if somebody really wants that 15 watt shiny box of sound, then let them have their fun. Sometimes you buy what you always wanted as a kid; or had one and wished you had never sold it years ago. Motivations are hard to determine.

And $400 for 10 to 12 hours labour these days is cheap....when your BMW dealership charges $130 an hour..... and a crappy burger meal at McDonalds is $10. It's all a matter of perspective.

Try sharing something constructive or informative. Whinging over what other people spend on their equipment is neither.


+1

There is a significant segment of the CAM membership who can't (or won't) pay much of anything for quality gear, and they are quick to crap all over people who can (or will) pay what things are worth. This segment seeks to drag the rest of the membership down to their level by shaming people who choose to buy quality and questioning their sanity. Sadly, it is always the same old lowball crowd.

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If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
Agree to the spirit of the post.

Must be the pixie dust in these...

Not just the lower end units (see a 1060 going for 900$; dispite being a 225-275$ amp), but the heavy hitters are now equivalent to fool's gold as well (1250 model for 2500$). Pretty to look at it, but no substainal reason for the asking price.

Marantz has become the most romantic receiver possibly ever. Prices seem to reflect that too.

Don't get me wrong, I like them - but I ain't paying 700$ for any 2230.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:47 pm 
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I sold the mint unused 2250 to a man who wanted his son to have a pristine new unit.

The way I managed to set it up, though, no one had ever done the 'multiple shots of the front- as close ups' thing before. And more of internal shots, perfected lighting and contrasts, highlights, pro photography kinda thing.....then the greasy slick text bits, and so on. They all noticed and then everything changed for the presentation and asking prices of the vintage gear.

It took some time but within a year it was almost done, regarding the pro sellers copying my style. the pro presentation of vintage product on eBay, is all a copy and mod if that first advert I ran. Then it migrated to other sites, in some ways.

I was first in screen coatings, something a few film/video screen companies would like to have me shot for. And other firsts in various markets. (I'm just trying to show that it is possible that I did this given sales thing first, as I have an established history in such things. It's not an ego thing. Ie, there is a record, so it's not immediately possible to say I'm full of it)

Image

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Last edited by Teo Audio on Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:48 pm 
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Hey Musicware4u...
Let me appeal to this side of you.
How many Cammers can honestly say they own over 2000 lps and have them in rotation.
Theres passion and then there's real passion.

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Chipmunk1957 wrote:
Hey Musicware4u...
Let me appeal to this side of you.
How many Cammers can honestly say they own over 2000 lps and have them in rotation.
Theres passion and then there's real passion.

Me :D

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:57 pm 
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deltaV wrote:
Given vintage Marantz build quality, spending for recap (provided it's done the right way, no fake Chinese caps from ebay, properly matched caps, good soldering)
virtually guarantees the buyer a reliable unit for the next 40 years. It's very close to having unheard in the industry 40-yrs warranty, sort of.
That particular model (2230) may not be worth it in terms of sound, never liked it, but something like 2285 (not B) or 2325 or Model 19 definitely is, no matter what the price is.
For my own units, I tend to recap power supply only, to preserve original sound, unless the stereo is obviously high mileage, then it's recapping all the way.
On a side note, it's hard to match caps these days.
The statement above is true for most higher end vintage brands (Sansui, McIntosh, Pioneer, Dynaco, etc).
One more thing, the biggest filter caps (usually the big 2, sometimes 4) die last, unless abused.
The smallest 1uF/similar capacitors usually die first.


I agree that a 2285 or 2275 would be more worth efforts. Your also right about sourcing out good quality caps etc.. I can see doing it myself since I have done so with various receivers, but paying someone the money they ask is another thing all together. Any seller can ask what they want otherwise especially if they afford to sit on the component for a long time. Yes, find a set of Elna power supply caps for example would not be easy to find without paying top $$. HK used Elna caps throughout the 930 and 730 receivers.

Luxman used to incorporate very good quality components in their R 1040, 50, 70 receivers. Sansui's were also well made and sounded great. I found it interesting and for whatever reason is that the Marantz 2238b in particular is one of the best sounding Marantz receivers I have heard and I have owned most of them are at least heard them. The 2275 is still my fav and one day I will recap one of those.

-- 01 Nov 2017 20:00 --

KJT1 wrote:
Chipmunk1957 wrote:
Hey Musicware4u...
Let me appeal to this side of you.
How many Cammers can honestly say they own over 2000 lps and have them in rotation.
Theres passion and then there's real passion.

Me :D


+1 2200 and counting. It's all about the music and great listening.


Last edited by Musicware4u on Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:00 pm 
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KJT1 wrote:
Chipmunk1957 wrote:
Hey Musicware4u...
Let me appeal to this side of you.
How many Cammers can honestly say they own over 2000 lps and have them in rotation.
Theres passion and then there's real passion.

Me :D

8)

-- 01 Nov 2017 21:06 --

Musicware4u wrote:
deltaV wrote:
Given vintage Marantz build quality, spending for recap (provided it's done the right way, no fake Chinese caps from ebay, properly matched caps, good soldering)
virtually guarantees the buyer a reliable unit for the next 40 years. It's very close to having unheard in the industry 40-yrs warranty, sort of.
That particular model (2230) may not be worth it in terms of sound, never liked it, but something like 2285 (not B) or 2325 or Model 19 definitely is, no matter what the price is.
For my own units, I tend to recap power supply only, to preserve original sound, unless the stereo is obviously high mileage, then it's recapping all the way.
On a side note, it's hard to match caps these days.
The statement above is true for most higher end vintage brands (Sansui, McIntosh, Pioneer, Dynaco, etc).
One more thing, the biggest filter caps (usually the big 2, sometimes 4) die last, unless abused.
The smallest 1uF/similar capacitors usually die first.


I agree that a 2285 or 2275 would be more worth efforts. Your also right about sourcing out good quality caps etc.. I can see doing it myself since I have done so with various receivers, but paying someone the money they ask is another thing all together. Any seller can ask what they want otherwise especially if they afford to sit on the component for a long time. Yes, find a set of Elna power supply caps for example would not be easy to find without paying top $$. HK used Elna caps throughout the 930 and 730 receivers.

Luxman used to incorporate very good quality components in their R 1040, 50, 70 receivers. Sansui's were also well made and sounded great. I found it interesting and for whatever reason is that the Marantz 2238b in particular is one of the best sounding Marantz receivers I have heard and I have owned most of them are at least heard them. The 2275 is still my fav and one day I will recap one of those.

-- 01 Nov 2017 20:00 --

KJT1 wrote:
Chipmunk1957 wrote:
Hey Musicware4u...
Let me appeal to this side of you.
How many Cammers can honestly say they own over 2000 lps and have them in rotation.
Theres passion and then there's real passion.

Me :D


+1 2200 and counting. It's all about the music and great listening.

So knowing full well that you have THAT many lps compared to most people who have 1/10th of that ...why cant you get your head wrapped around the rebuilding of a receiver.
Reread Brownslane's post buddy.

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Yes get what you want cuz you can get anything..."


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:33 am
Posts: 1180
Location: Kingston, ON, CA
So who wants to tie me to a chair and take a couple of swings at me?

Image


Beuller? Beuller?

(think of it as the vintage gear pricing version of the guy who shot the archduke and got the whole thing rolling. The first domino, or major inflection point. And he's right here!)

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Last edited by Teo Audio on Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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