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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Location: ste-marthe-sur-le-lac, QC, CA
Hello,
The tonearm on my PF 800 is a little sticky.It becomes sticky if I move the arm too high when moving it off the record back to the rest. The weight on the cartridge changes (I've tested this with a Shure SFG 2 scale) and I need to play with it a little to "unstick" it. I've tried Deoxit and graphite lube at the pivot with no changes. Is this something I have to live with or is there a fix?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:20 am 
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Location: ste-marthe-sur-le-lac, QC, CA
Can anyone help regardless of the brand?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:55 pm
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
It’s possible the bearing(s) are worn in which your only choice would be to replace the arm.

The pivot to spindle of the Yamaha is 222mm – same as Rega so a Rega arm (or ones of the same geometry) should work if you wish to invest in repairing this table


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:53 am 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
Dry lubricant is most likely the wrong way to go. I suggest using a silicone lubricant. Available in a spray with a small nozzle to get into the pivot area. Mask the rest of the turntable base with paper towels to prevent overspray, apply a small amount of the lubricant onto the pivots. Deoxit contains a solvent base and a residual lubricant. If you spray deoxit on plastic parts it may damage them. Silicone will not do this and will creep into the deep areas of the pivots....

And try moving the tonearm while applying the spray and immediately afterward; which will help work the lubricant into the affected area.

Wipe off excess lubricant. If, after a couple of applications and a few days, the problem persists, then you need to take it to a professional. Lubrication will not resolve a wear issue.

Good luck.


Last edited by brownslane on Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:40 am 
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Location: Smalltown, ON, CA
25 year plus PF800 owner here and my fair share of arms rebuild under my belt! Here's my advice..........run, don't walk to the nearest GOOD turntable tech and explain what you have done so far. Do not ever use anything on the pivots.......... ever! I had a quick look at mine and that's going to be a little puzzle to take apart. The pivots (bearings) are not meant to be lubed, greased, deoxed, etc. As an aside, don't change the wiring or let anyone talk you into "upgrading" this arm.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:39 am 
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Location: ste-marthe-sur-le-lac, QC, CA
Thanks to all who have responded.
davinci_redux.I will try to explain exactly what I have done then I would welcome your conclusion...When moving the arm perfectly horizontal on to the Shure SFG 2 scale I get a desired cartridge weight of 1.5gr. Doing these several times confirms the weight is dead on. If I happen to move the arm above the horizontal position and on to the scale, the weight has now lightened leading me to conclued that the arm sticks at the pivot. What do you think?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:07 am 
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Location: ste-marthe-sur-le-lac, QC, CA
So I managed to clean the area around the arm pivot. I then readjusted the VTF to 1.5gr and weighed the cartridge using the Shure sfg 2 scale. Again the weight was dead on.Moving the arm right to left on and off the scale altered the weight slightly. As soon as I would lift the arm higher the weight of the cartridge on the scale would not even budge the scale. I don't understand why.Is it friction? Is it the way I'm using the scale? Bearings?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
andym wrote:
So I managed to clean the area around the arm pivot. I then readjusted the VTF to 1.5gr and weighed the cartridge using the Shure sfg 2 scale. Again the weight was dead on.Moving the arm right to left on and off the scale altered the weight slightly. As soon as I would lift the arm higher the weight of the cartridge on the scale would not even budge the scale. I don't understand why.Is it friction? Is it the way I'm using the scale? Bearings?



We cannot diagnose this over the internet and you cannot (with all respect) fix this yourself. If you have tried the suggestions already provided to you, save yourself a lot of grief and take it to a professional. Get it done correctly.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Location: Thornhill, ON, CA
Is the cueing not fully dropped down?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
i must not be reading this correctly.

are you weighing the cartridge elevated from the platter? (that is what it seems like you mean)

if so the force *must* drop, because the geometry has changed. this is *normal*. The weight at the end of the arm has an arc of motion. once you raise the arm high enough the angle of the weight relative to the bearing changes and the weight exerts an altered leverage on the wand. This is physics and is no indication on its own of a problem.

i might be reading it wrong though.

you only need to set the tracking force at the level of the record. no higher is needed and the readiing will be different and not useful. the trackinng force will and should be different when you change the height of the tonearm, or measure it at different heights, within a proscribed amount.

if thats the only problem then you dont have a problem. enjoy your records.

if you have sticking as you move the wand through its normal arc that is different and indicates a problem.

again i may be reading it wrong. and if you just got the table, its a good idea to have a good pro look it over and set it up if you dont feel comfortable.

can you describe again exactly what you are doing that indicates the problem?


Last edited by phowell1 on Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Location: ste-marthe-sur-le-lac, QC, CA
Problem fixed!!! It was the tonearm wiring that impeded the arm from moving freely. Reached under the arm with a small screwdriver and moved the wires a bit. I`m not sure this is a permanent fix but will look into it in the morning.
Which brings me to my next dilemma....How do I know the wiring is the original? I've read and I was told that the original wire should not be touched or upgraded(as per member Davinci_redux).I bought this table used, so I'm wondering what was done to it.Would anybody know at least the color of the original wiring???


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
i get it now.

good catch!

if you get clean unbroken sound from the table then the wires are connected in order and are unbroken. doesnt mean there are no other compromises or problems, with the wire or the rest of it.

given what you said, it may be a good idea to let a pro look it over. the previous owner must have known about the too tight tonearm wire (or it bunched up on him and caused a problem so he dumped it and didnt have the integrity or the balls to tell you). if that was hiding what else is hiding? may be a good idea to take it to a reputable shop for a once over.


but good catch!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:00 am 
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Image

The best sounding wiring, is done in a single run from headshell clips to the MM/MC input on the phono amp proper.

In the 80's, we would do a single 'hard wired' run from cartridge to premp internals.

in the PF-800, there are multiple connectors and multiple wiring types. At least two too many from what they could have been. This was done for servicing convenience, and of course, we (audio nuts everywhere), being hard core...did it the hard core audio way. Single run, soldered on both ends (van den hul mono crystal wiring, etc).

I could have bought PT-800's and PF-1000's new, for very low prices. The local store at the time, "House of Sounds', used to buy closeouts before closeouts existed. (as you know them now, that is)

Stacks of Pioneer CT-A9 Cassette decks for $350-299. He bought out all the Mirage Stock of the 750-650-550's when they were closed out. Hundreds of them. They still pop up on street corners.

Same for the closeouts of the Yamaha PF-800-1000's. More per capita of those in Kingston, than anywhere else. They keep showing up in places, still, today. anyway, it is the issues of the wiring that kept me away from having one. Just a tad too much consumer oriented (less demanding) and a tad too less audio-fanatic oriented (more demanding). He even bought all the Nagaoka cartridge stock. We were practically tripping over tiny MP-50S(H) and MP-11 Boron cartridges boxes in the streets. The Nagaoka headshells are still coming out of the woodwork. I've accidentally ended up with 4 or 5 of them, over the years.

Ie, last year, someone gave me a mint unused but minor (now fixed) problem HK T35C turntable, with a sub 50hr (basically new) MP11 Boron Cart! (stereo microscope inspected). +25 years later..they still show up.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:52 am 
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Location: ste-marthe-sur-le-lac, QC, CA
I will be bringing it to a tech that I trust since although I have identified the problem I can`t fix it. If I have to change the tonearm wiring what would you recommend that comes close to the original?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:35 pm
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Location: Wetaskiwin, AB, CA
Try setting the "tracking force knob" to zero and use the "balance adjustment knob" to set your vertical tracking force.
Works for me on my PF-800 and PF-1000.

I'd really hesitate to change out the tonearm wiring.
This is another owner's experience:
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/43726/rediscovering-vinyl-music-hall-mmf-9-and-yamaha-pf-800-turntables-pt-1

Good Luck and Happy Listening
John


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