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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Location: Edmonton, AB, CA
I've been waffling back and forth on what to do here. I want two things but can only afford one: new speakers and quality tube preamp. Upgrading the speakers makes the most sense after some thought (I think...). Does it to you guys?

What I like about the arro is that it's fairly small, has decent bass and images well. I'd like more resolution and midrange sweetness while maintaining those characteristics. I've placed it about a foot and a half from the back wall facing into an open concept living/dining room.

Restrictions are bass output as I live in an apartment building. So I'm leaning towards a better monitor or small floorstander with better components as really, the arro is fairly entry level.

I use a Pass Labs XA30.5 and PS audio directstream jr.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Forests...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Newer ProAc response series is an improvement over Totem. The Neat sX3i listed on here are amazing but might be too much bass for your space.


Last edited by James_W on Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Stone wrote:
Forests...


Maybe I should give them another listen but from memory I don't recall loving them. I do have to consider about how much added bass output there would be as well in contrast to the Arro.

James_W wrote:
Newer ProAc response series.


Any models in particular?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:20 am 
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After asking elsewhere, dealers and what feels like a crazy amount of research, I kinda have a running list (see below). Something that can be placed fairly close to the back wall and excels at lower volumes, 75-80db.

Again I have to consider bass output but with a large cabinet at lower volumes, is there a difference between monitor and tower?

Various Harbeths
Atc19
Totem Ember/Fire
Proac D2 new / d18 if I can audition
Dynaudio 40 limited edition
PMC .22
Used Joseph Audio pulsar
Jbl 4312se


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:25 am 
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Location: Collingwood, ON, CA
You might add Kudos X2/3 and Spendor A3/5 to the list. The former is a little more forward, like the Arrow, while the Spendor more midrange focused. Both would be a nice step in in refinement.

Of those you have listed the Harbeth M30 would be a good choice, as would the PMC.

The ATC needs quite a bit of power to open up, while the Proac may or may not appeal. I find them focused on the top and bottom end, somewhat sucked out in the middle. Pretty much the opposite of Harbeth.

Dynaudio uses a large rear port, so placement close to a wall may give you boomy bass problems?

The Totem element/ember is a fun speaker, but not at all refined relative to some of the others mentioned. I have no experience with Joseph Audio.

As always, go listen for yourself.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:27 am 
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Considered anything from Reference 3A?..... MM de Capo BE comes to mind.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:55 am 
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The Arros do a very nice job up to a point. Have you ever considered using them with a decent sub?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:58 am 
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meiwan wrote:
You might add Kudos X2/3 and Spendor A3/5 to the list. The former is a little more forward, like the Arrow, while the Spendor more midrange focused. Both would be a nice step in in refinement.

Of those you have listed the Harbeth M30 would be a good choice, as would the PMC.

The ATC needs quite a bit of power to open up, while the Proac may or may not appeal. I find them focused on the top and bottom end, somewhat sucked out in the middle. Pretty much the opposite of Harbeth.

Dynaudio uses a large rear port, so placement close to a wall may give you boomy bass problems?

The Totem element/ember is a fun speaker, but not at all refined relative to some of the others mentioned. I have no experience with Joseph Audio.

As always, go listen for yourself.


These are really helpful suggestions, thank you for sharing!

albinosquirlz wrote:
Considered anything from Reference 3A?..... MM de Capo BE comes to mind.


If I can find a way to audition that would be great. Another monitor actually that comes to mind is the Fritz 7 Carbon SE but again really hard to audition...

kb007 wrote:
The Arros do a very nice job up to a point. Have you ever considered using them with a decent sub?


I have not as I live in an apartment and bass from a subwoofer concerns me too much.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:18 am 
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Audio Physic provide what you have described and should be on your list for a small form floor stander.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Hi,

A couple of suggestions for the OP.

1) Floor standers will likely give you a bit more bass and mid-bass content at low volume levels. They also will transmit more deep bass content through your apartment floor. That may be a problem as volume levels rise.
2) That said, you clearly like what you already have in a speaker (Arro) and so don't just throw that baby out with the bathwater.
3) A sweet tube pre-amp inserted might give you the sonic field you crave. Maybe a Croft?
4) Another option is to swap in a sweeter tube integrated. Maybe a Prima Luna or a Line Magnetic or a Leben. Various models from these companies offer different tube types.
5) Finally, here are a few extra (unmentioned above) two way stand mounts (available used) that have decent reputations: the earlier Epos designs, J.M. Reynaud Twins/Bliss, Harbeth or Spendor or Rogers or Chartwell LS 3/5as as well as their many descendents, and Audio Note's 2X, if somebody could ever buy a pair of them without having to go to Singapore.

Cheers,
David Neice

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:09 pm 
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mpublicover wrote:
Audio Physic provide what you have described and should be on your list for a small form floor stander.


Will look, thank you! Again demoing a pair here in Alberta might be difficult...

buybye88 wrote:
Hi,

A couple of suggestions for the OP.

1) Floor standers will likely give you a bit more bass and mid-bass content at low volume levels. They also will transmit more deep bass content through your apartment floor. That may be a problem as volume levels rise.
2) That said, you clearly like what you already have in a speaker (Arro) and so don't just throw that baby out with the bathwater.
3) A sweet tube pre-amp inserted might give you the sonic field you crave. Maybe a Croft?
4) Another option is to swap in a sweeter tube integrated. Maybe a Prima Luna or a Line Magnetic or a Leben. Various models from these companies offer different tube types.
5) Finally, here are a few extra (unmentioned above) two way stand mounts (available used) that have decent reputations: the earlier Epos designs, J.M. Reynaud Twins/Bliss, Harbeth or Spendor or Rogers or Chartwell LS 3/5as as well as their many descendents, and Audio Note's 2X, if somebody could ever buy a pair of them without having to go to Singapore.

Cheers,
David Neice


Thanks David!

1) This was definitely one of my concerns. My condo in Edmonton has carpet but my rental condo in Calgary (whenever I move back) has laminate. The transmission is my biggest concern. Unless there is a way to minimize this with a floorstander, a large standmount is where I'm leaning.
4) I have considered this as well but I really love this Pass Labs power amp. I'm really hoping I can find some synergy by demoing as much as possible.
5) Will look into those more, thank you!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Location: courtice, ON, CA
I too have Arros and have you done the following:

1) Fill them with 20+ pounds of sand or BB? Those Arros should be no further than 18 inches from the back of the wall. How far apart do you have them? Arros are like puppies, they have to be close to each other for them to work as a set. I would suggest somewhere within 6 feet.

2) Consider adding a Totem Sub like a Mini KIN?

If you are a rocker who demands BASS than I would agree that these speakers are not capable of pounding out the bass, but overall, they are a very good speaker for medium sizes rooms.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:51 pm 
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consider Totem Sky they have good bass a really enjoyable speaker to listen to


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:29 pm 
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msommers wrote:

Will look, thank you! Again demoing a pair here in Alberta might be difficult...

there are a couple pairs in the ads in Calgary.
What is great for buyers in the used market for AP's is that they are not well known and thus the pricing makes them a stupid value. I've had Studio 60's and Sttaf's at the same time as my AP Yara 2's and the AP's are still with me whereas the others are long gone.


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