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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
Hi all
I currently am running a set of von schweikert vr4 gen 111 hse... their biamped ... moon w5.3 driving the upper cabinets , while a bryston 14b sst is taking care of the bass modules , and Moon P5 preamp...This is my first transmission line speaker . Im not sure if its me or what but i had a set of old energy 22 connoisseurs, and they seemed to have twice the audible bass as these von schweikerts . Am i missing something ?? Sure i can get bass to wrattle the walls but only at ear bleeding levels ,.. thoughts ?? Suggestions ??? Should i be looking for a true bass reflex design ??? ....


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Location: Mississauga, ON, CA
deuce07 wrote:
Hi all
I currently am running a set of von schweikert vr4 gen 111 hse... their biamped ... moon w5.3 driving the upper cabinets , while a bryston 14b sst is taking care of the bass modules , and Moon P5 preamp...This is my first transmission line speaker . Im not sure if its me or what but i had a set of old energy 22 connoisseurs, and they seemed to have twice the audible bass as these von schweikerts . Am i missing something ?? Sure i can get bass to wrattle the walls but only at ear bleeding levels ,.. thoughts ?? Suggestions ??? Should i be looking for a true bass reflex design ??? ....


If I understand correctly u r passively biamping the speakers using their internal crossover.R u sure your amps r balanced? In another words do they produce the same output for the mid/high and the bass?

Although the Energy 22 were bass heavy speakers there is no reason the von schweikerts should not produce the same (or more) amount of bass. My bet is that the Bryston gain is set too low (or moon too high)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Bandy wrote:
deuce07 wrote:
Hi all
I currently am running a set of von schweikert vr4 gen 111 hse... their biamped ... moon w5.3 driving the upper cabinets , while a bryston 14b sst is taking care of the bass modules , and Moon P5 preamp...This is my first transmission line speaker . Im not sure if its me or what but i had a set of old energy 22 connoisseurs, and they seemed to have twice the audible bass as these von schweikerts . Am i missing something ?? Sure i can get bass to wrattle the walls but only at ear bleeding levels ,.. thoughts ?? Suggestions ??? Should i be looking for a true bass reflex design ??? ....


If I understand correctly u r passively biamping the speakers using their internal crossover.R u sure your amps r balanced? In another words do they produce the same output for the mid/high and the bass?

Although the Energy 22 were bass heavy speakers there is no reason the von schweikerts should not produce the same (or more) amount of bass. My bet is that the Bryston gain is set too low (or moon too high)

+1...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Bandy ... never thought about the gain my bryston is used ,is their an adjutment inside ? Nothing outside only the switches for a +3db gain under the balanced connection (which are on)

-- 13 Aug 2017 22:47 --

Chipmunk1957 wrote:
Bandy wrote:
deuce07 wrote:
Hi all
I currently am running a set of von schweikert vr4 gen 111 hse... their biamped ... moon w5.3 driving the upper cabinets , while a bryston 14b sst is taking care of the bass modules , and Moon P5 preamp...This is my first transmission line speaker . Im not sure if its me or what but i had a set of old energy 22 connoisseurs, and they seemed to have twice the audible bass as these von schweikerts . Am i missing something ?? Sure i can get bass to wrattle the walls but only at ear bleeding levels ,.. thoughts ?? Suggestions ??? Should i be looking for a true bass reflex design ??? ....


If I understand correctly u r passively biamping the speakers using their internal crossover.R u sure your amps r balanced? In another words do they produce the same output for the mid/high and the bass?

Although the Energy 22 were bass heavy speakers there is no reason the von schweikerts should not produce the same (or more) amount of bass. My bet is that the Bryston gain is set too low (or moon too high)

+1...






Still have the energy's upstairs chippy


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Location: Vernon, BC, CA
Have you tried them with only one amp?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:52 am 
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Jared: .. yes i have tried the bryston alone as well as the moon ... no difference


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:31 am 
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Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
That's what quick,tight,accurate bass sounds like.

Gary


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:38 am 
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Gary .... i. Beginning to believe your statement ... however i somewhat miss the weight in the bass region (midbass ) i wonder if i changed my preamp couldnthis be achieved or would it be impossible with these speakers.... i just find this system sounds anemic ... and when i look at the physical size of these speakers, i scratch my head ....


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:46 am 
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are you sure all woofer ok? make sure all drivers are playing.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:46 am 
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Have you checked to see if your speakers are phased correctly?

Any time I set up a system I use a test CD that can evaluate phase, and frequency response.

Regards
Ohms

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:51 am 
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https://youtu.be/SGUxtA83L3Q

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:54 am 
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seas driver are not made for some earthquacke shattering with the deepest bass like a subwoofer. they are usually neutral more like natural sounding drivers.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:00 am 
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They have frequency responce of 20-20khz +\- 3 db ...those figures should be able to move some air .... woofers are all functioning ,and phasing seems correct.... maybe transmission line speakers are not for me , frustrating as hell.... they just sound anemic untill i crank them...but i look at their size and scratch my head !


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:10 am 
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deuce07 wrote:
Gary .... i. Beginning to believe your statement ... however i somewhat miss the weight in the bass region (midbass ) i wonder if i changed my preamp couldnthis be achieved or would it be impossible with these speakers.... i just find this system sounds anemic ... and when i look at the physical size of these speakers, i scratch my head ....

I recall a CAM member Pat in Crystal Beach having the same comments as you.Combined with a lively room might not help much either if that's the case.Masking effect.
Electronics won't help.

Gary


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:43 am 
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Location: Crystal Beach, ON, CA
deuce07 wrote:
Hi all
I currently am running a set of von schweikert vr4 gen 111 hse... their biamped ... moon w5.3 driving the upper cabinets , while a bryston 14b sst is taking care of the bass modules , and Moon P5 preamp...This is my first transmission line speaker . Im not sure if its me or what but i had a set of old energy 22 connoisseurs, and they seemed to have twice the audible bass as these von schweikerts . Am i missing something ?? Sure i can get bass to wrattle the walls but only at ear bleeding levels ,.. thoughts ?? Suggestions ??? Should i be looking for a true bass reflex design ??? ....


Hi deuce07.

Gary is correct. I owned VR4Jrs and complained of a similar problem.

I believe this is the post Gary is referring to - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36864

The good news is there were MANY responses to review. Unfortunately, there were MANY responses to review - test and try out. Some never made it, some did.

Of course, I tried bi-amping and many other suggestions, but, this might be helpful to you;

I contacted the company in the States. They were quite responsive. I was instructed to first test that the drivers (bass) are in phase. The 1.5v battery trick accommodated. All drivers were in phase. I was then instructed to remove the bass drivers and adjust the material behind the them. The material is VERY packed. It did help, but, I noticed that the sound began to get less tight as I removed more damping material. Which is what you'd expect and not what I was hoping for.

The end result? Another CAM member I knew heard I put them up for sale. He came over for a demo. I explained my complaint of weak bass and demo'd a Steely Dan. He sat and listened carefully - then looked me straight in the eye and said "That's not enough bass for you?!". He bought them.

I now run pair of large MLs with 2 subs in the room. The subs are set quite low. They just add a touch and I only flip them on if needed. I guess I prefer a fuller sound than some require. Still hunting for the best amps, though. Not enough detail yet - which the VRs had in spades w the Moon W3..... Stupid hobby. :lol:

(BTW: Regarding the suggestion of your amps having different gain - just swap amps - LF for HF. See if that helps.)

Pat


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