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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:50 am 
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Hi Guys,

I'm starting to think about speaker upgrades and Magneplanars such as the 1.7 are a definite consideration. Does anyone know if delamination of the wires or tweeter are still an issue with the more recent models or have they managed to fix it for good?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:16 am 
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AFAIK, delamination will always be a possibility with Magnepans as they age due to excessive humidity, excessive dryness, sunlight, heat and .... age. I consider that occasional delamination is a fact of life after a few decades and that dealing with it should be considered regular maintenance for these panels, just as changing the oil, brakes or tires on a car is considered normal wear and tear requiring regular maintenance. Advances in materials and adhesives have extended the time between délaminations, but I'm not sure if they will ever totally eliminate it. Only time can tell us for sure.

Fixing delaminated panels is a fairly simple DIY fix and should take your speakers out of service for a few days at most (drying time) every 10 to 20+ years. Really no worse than having to recap speaker crossovers or refoaming woofer surrounds; just a different type of maintenance and every speaker, no matter the technology, will eventually need it. Just accept it as a fact of life and enjoy the speakers.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:38 am 
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Magnepan switched to the new adhesive in September 2005 I believe. They are confident their newer products will not suffer from UV or moisture related de-lamination as did
many of the earlier models. That said, OBI has some good real world insight into the speaker aging process and as he suggests fixing Maggie de-lam is relatively easy.

With no technical training and only average manual dexterity ,plus factory supplied parts, I just rebuilt an old pair of SMGa from the mylar up.

Don't let fear of delamination spoil your enjoyment of these great speakers!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:01 am 
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As a long time Maggie owner ( currently have 7 pairs) delaminating is a pain but is really very easy to fix. Magnepan can supply almost anything you need to repair them. I was even able to order the matching hinges for my Tympani 1V A and they haven't made this speaker in close to 30 years. Probably the hardest part is getting all the staples out without wrecking the socks and then putting them back together. Even the glue you need to repair them can be found locally instead of buying it from them. They are very nice speakers and I will probably die still owning a pair or two.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:04 am 
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OBI56 wrote:
AFAIK, delamination will always be a possibility with Magnepans as they age due to excessive humidity, excessive dryness, sunlight, heat and .... age. I consider that occasional delamination is a fact of life after a few decades and that dealing with it should be considered regular maintenance for these panels, just as changing the oil, brakes or tires on a car is considered normal wear and tear requiring regular maintenance. Advances in materials and adhesives have extended the time between délaminations, but I'm not sure if they will ever totally eliminate it. Only time can tell us for sure.

Fixing delaminated panels is a fairly simple DIY fix and should take your speakers out of service for a few days at most (drying time) every 10 to 20+ years. Really no worse than having to recap speaker crossovers or refoaming woofer surrounds; just a different type of maintenance and every speaker, no matter the technology, will eventually need it. Just accept it as a fact of life and enjoy the speakers.



Thanks OBI,

Appreciated - I thought you'd have a good take on what the current state of the issue is. They'd be kept out of direct sunlight and away from heat. Dryness is an issue here as I live in the Okanagan - closest thing to the desert that we have in Canada - but isn't severe, just much lower humidity than what you guys deal with back east, esp in summer. In winter we generally keep the room temp around 72-74F to keep it comfortable and that would be fairly dry as well I suppose.

I imagine it must be fairly obvious when the issue does arise. I"m good with DIY so it doesn't daunt me, just didn't like the idea of having to ship them for repair. That could get expensive from here. I purchased a used pair of IIs in the mid-80s as my very first foray into high end audio and thought I had scored well for $600 until I pulled down the socks and discovered there was masking tape covering a 6 inch split in the mylar. Newbie burned by unethical seller. Nothing new there. :roll:

-- 08 Apr 2017 16:07 --

bikeguy wrote:
As a long time Maggie owner ( currently have 7 pairs) delaminating is a pain but is really very easy to fix. Magnepan can supply almost anything you need to repair them. I was even able to order the matching hinges for my Tympani 1V A and they haven't made this speaker in close to 30 years. Probably the hardest part is getting all the staples out without wrecking the socks and then putting them back together. Even the glue you need to repair them can be found locally instead of buying it from them. They are very nice speakers and I will probably die still owning a pair or two.


Exactly what I'd hoped I'd hear.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:46 am 
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kstrobbe wrote:
Magnepan switched to the new adhesive in September 2005 I believe. They are confident their newer products will not suffer from UV or moisture related de-lamination as did
many of the earlier models. That said, OBI has some good real world insight into the speaker aging process and as he suggests fixing Maggie de-lam is relatively easy.

With no technical training and only average manual dexterity ,plus factory supplied parts, I just rebuilt an old pair of SMGa from the mylar up.

Don't let fear of delamination spoil your enjoyment of these great speakers!


I bought my 1.6QRs new in Feb 2008, They were ordered and shipped from Magnepan so they were produced after Sept 2005. However the tweeter aluminum ribbon foil on one speaker has deteriorated to the point it has to be stripped off and replaced. I have it in for rebuild. I can't say if it is a de-lamination or other issue but as others have said most of what goes wrong with Maggies as they is a pretty easy fix. Before these I had a pair of 1bs that went over 20 years before they was a tweeter wire issue - so unless they are used in hostile environment you should get very long trouble free service as long as you operate them as Magnepan describes - do not remove or by-pass the fuses for example.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:01 am 
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I've the 1.6QR, I'm the second owner. Looking at the serial number, they are probably from 2006 or so. No de lamination, function properly, and as OBI mentioned, fixing delaminated panels is a fairly simple DIY fix.
You shouldn't have any problem with your 1.7, the replacement for the 1.6QR or even the latest 1.7i .

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Last edited by moinau on Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Location: Leduc, AB, CA
I've been an electrostatic/planar person since I first heard and purchased Quad ESL 57's 48 years ago. Electrostatics have a history of being difficult to drive and, to a certain extent, maintain. I have always auditioned moving coil speakers that could be a potential replacement. So far, only one candidate - the 15+ year old, ribbon tweeter, $14,000, Oracle, built from granite and Birdseye maple, no longer available. No "junk", just clean, with solid imaging from good electronics of that time. I was recently able to hear Paradigm's new flagship model for a few minutes, in no way critically, however. Still heard "junk", all-be-it quite minimal. I have come to believe that people who prefer moving coil speakers are in love with some part of the inherent distortions that have endeared themselves over the years. (As people who like tube sound. I have both). Or, perhaps, the electronics involved to balance out the speaker's foibles, or visa versa, are ruthlessly exposed when planars are inserted into the mix. Early on, I recognized that I heard and liked certain things from moving coils that my electrostatics didn't do, but once I got back to my electrostatics, it was abundantly plain that there was no contest. The easiest analogy would be turning up the bass all the way when listening to a perfectly dialled in and fully competent system. It's just not real, even though it has an inherent appeal.

It goes without saying, but I will say that if your audio journey takes you firmly into moving coil design, and if you are having the time of your life therein, then you have every reason to remain and should not be second guessed. Period.

On the other hand, if you still seek your audio nirvana, I would strongly suggest giving electrostatics/planars a serious try. Up until a few months ago, my 57's were top dog. Just after Christmas, I had the occasion to properly audition a pair of Magnepan 1.7i 's. They were much better that what I ever could have expected, by a factor of about 3X's, and better than the Quads. I purchased them on the spot. When I got them home, and set up to my liking, the factor became about 10 fold (another ~3X's).

When I previously read that 1.7i 's were giant-killers (TAS), I really had no measure of what they meant. Now I most certainly do. For the price of the Paradigms ($38,000) you could get a dozen pairs of 1,7i 's ($3250) or a whole bunch of other "wants". Of course, a lot of other people will want and take the Paradigms, with good reason. That said, if your wallet is regular audiophile/music lover thin, you "owe" it to yourself, I truly believe, to take a serious look at these maggies.

An added benefit is that their accuracy will safely guide you through future system upgrades. And will they be too hard on poor recordings? Last night I got out a cassette tape I purchased about 15 years ago of Edmundo Ros, one of my mother's all time favourites. I had spotted it in a bin at Safeway and paid $3 for it. I wish you could have all been there. Of course, the presentation was somewhat "quiet" and bass was on the low side, completely typical for a cassette. That said, the enjoyment factor was through the roof. I was continually surprised by instruments I had never noticed before, and, I could follow the line of each without losing it against the background of overall sound, i.e., no smearing. The imaging was basically pinpoint, solid and seamless. The musicality was thoroughly engaging. I didn't need to increase the volume. And, best of all, analogue! I don't remember records played 15 years ago sounding this enjoyable overall. My Teac C-3X cassette machine has the added advantage of being able to record and play back at 3.75 in/sec and the overall parts and design to do this very well, likely making it superior to most other machines, save Revox, for standard speed. I now have a heightened respect for cassette capability, so obviously demonstrated by the maggies. Ditto digital and internet radio now listenable on my Bryston BDP-2.

My recommendation is clearly to give Magnepan a chance. Go for the latest model. De-lamination is very unlikely; cats or kids are much more likely. Instead, look forward to immaculate sound for years to come, at a fraction of the price you would pay for the same sound from anywhere else. Wendell Diller of Magnepan uses Bryston electronics to demonstrate all of their models at the electronic shows; such is the perceived synergy. I believe, and am so glad that I can, that the 1.7i 's are the only affordable AND truly state of the art speaker that has ever been produced in audio history. It's been 48 years! I fear I gush too much. Best wishes for your journey!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:15 am 
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+1
Maggies for last 25+ years, MG 1 first, now MG1.6 QRs. The 1.6 matched with Bryston power is beautiful.
Went to TAVES, could not find a room with decent sound, box speakers just can't do it for me anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:40 am 
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Posts: 540
Location: North Vancouver, BC, CA
TwentyKHzPlus wrote:
I've been an electrostatic/planar person since I first heard and purchased Quad ESL 57's 48 years ago. Electrostatics have a history of being difficult to drive and, to a certain extent, maintain. I have always auditioned moving coil speakers that could be a potential replacement. So far, only one candidate - the 15+ year old, ribbon tweeter, $14,000, Oracle, built from granite and Birdseye maple, no longer available. No "junk", just clean, with solid imaging from good electronics of that time. I was recently able to hear Paradigm's new flagship model for a few minutes, in no way critically, however. Still heard "junk", all-be-it quite minimal. I have come to believe that people who prefer moving coil speakers are in love with some part of the inherent distortions that have endeared themselves over the years. (As people who like tube sound. I have both). Or, perhaps, the electronics involved to balance out the speaker's foibles, or visa versa, are ruthlessly exposed when planars are inserted into the mix. Early on, I recognized that I heard and liked certain things from moving coils that my electrostatics didn't do, but once I got back to my electrostatics, it was abundantly plain that there was no contest. The easiest analogy would be turning up the bass all the way when listening to a perfectly dialled in and fully competent system. It's just not real, even though it has an inherent appeal.

It goes without saying, but I will say that if your audio journey takes you firmly into moving coil design, and if you are having the time of your life therein, then you have every reason to remain and should not be second guessed. Period.

On the other hand, if you still seek your audio nirvana, I would strongly suggest giving electrostatics/planars a serious try. Up until a few months ago, my 57's were top dog. Just after Christmas, I had the occasion to properly audition a pair of Magnepan 1.7i 's. They were much better that what I ever could have expected, by a factor of about 3X's, and better than the Quads. I purchased them on the spot. When I got them home, and set up to my liking, the factor became about 10 fold (another ~3X's).

When I previously read that 1.7i 's were giant-killers (TAS), I really had no measure of what they meant. Now I most certainly do. For the price of the Paradigms ($38,000) you could get a dozen pairs of 1,7i 's ($3250) or a whole bunch of other "wants". Of course, a lot of other people will want and take the Paradigms, with good reason. That said, if your wallet is regular audiophile/music lover thin, you "owe" it to yourself, I truly believe, to take a serious look at these maggies.

An added benefit is that their accuracy will safely guide you through future system upgrades. And will they be too hard on poor recordings? Last night I got out a cassette tape I purchased about 15 years ago of Edmundo Ros, one of my mother's all time favourites. I had spotted it in a bin at Safeway and paid $3 for it. I wish you could have all been there. Of course, the presentation was somewhat "quiet" and bass was on the low side, completely typical for a cassette. That said, the enjoyment factor was through the roof. I was continually surprised by instruments I had never noticed before, and, I could follow the line of each without losing it against the background of overall sound, i.e., no smearing. The imaging was basically pinpoint, solid and seamless. The musicality was thoroughly engaging. I didn't need to increase the volume. And, best of all, analogue! I don't remember records played 15 years ago sounding this enjoyable overall. My Teac C-3X cassette machine has the added advantage of being able to record and play back at 3.75 in/sec and the overall parts and design to do this very well, likely making it superior to most other machines, save Revox, for standard speed. I now have a heightened respect for cassette capability, so obviously demonstrated by the maggies. Ditto digital and internet radio now listenable on my Bryston BDP-2.

My recommendation is clearly to give Magnepan a chance. Go for the latest model. De-lamination is very unlikely; cats or kids are much more likely. Instead, look forward to immaculate sound for years to come, at a fraction of the price you would pay for the same sound from anywhere else. Wendell Diller of Magnepan uses Bryston electronics to demonstrate all of their models at the electronic shows; such is the perceived synergy. I believe, and am so glad that I can, that the 1.7i 's are the only affordable AND truly state of the art speaker that has ever been produced in audio history. It's been 48 years! I fear I gush too much. Best wishes for your journey!


I had a similar journey, the quad 57s being the ultimate, until I set up mag 1.6s properly in my room. Previous experience had been in showrooms. I couldn’t believe how good they sounded. Now I have a really nice pair of 3.7 sitting in my car and should have them hooked up tonight. Point being they are well worth the cost of repairs if required.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:38 am 
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There is no doubt that Magneplanar's can be terrific speakers BUT they take a fair bit of effort to get the best out of them.
Years ago I bought a pair of 3.6's. It was a horrible mistake.
My room was totally wrong for them. No amount of moving would make them sound as they should. After a couple weeks I returned them.
I learned a good lesson. I now talk to my dealer about my my room, my amplification and associated gear, what I like to listen to, how loud I listen to it.
Even though it was many years ago, I catch my self day dreaming about the 3.6's and how they might have sounded if I had the proper set up.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:33 pm 
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As the matter of fact, the delamination issue will never go away as it's the nature of the beast unless Magnepan will come up with a totally radical design that will do away with using glue and thin film.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:27 am 
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I miss my 1.6’s a lot. If I could live without cats I would buy another pair of Maggie’s immediately while I still have a dedicated room. I found them extraordinary during the year I owned them. Even the MMG’s with a sub were fantastic.

But I have 3 furry babies and the 2 younger ones would have continued to abuse the speakers. I could not see that happen.

All speakers need maintenance over time.

If you have the room and can afford the amps, I would go for it with any modern Maggie.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA, US
bikeguy wrote:
As a long time Maggie owner ( currently have 7 pairs) delaminating is a pain but is really very easy to fix. Magnepan can supply almost anything you need to repair them. I was even able to order the matching hinges for my Tympani 1V A and they haven't made this speaker in close to 30 years. Probably the hardest part is getting all the staples out without wrecking the socks and then putting them back together. Even the glue you need to repair them can be found locally instead of buying it from them. They are very nice speakers and I will probably die still owning a pair or two.



Hi,

So did you find a good technique for pulling the staples without wrecking the socks? Also, you mention obtaining glue for repairs locally. What kind of glue are you using and who makes it?

Thanks,
Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:39 pm 
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I got myself a pair of .7i a couple of years ago because the 1.7i were just to big for my room . I really doubt I’ll ever have delamination problem with these newest models. Think about the Kef ls50 for a minute. Has anyone had the cone separated from the rubber surround. I’ve have these little devils cranked up full tilt with some serious cone excursions . Everything held together just fine. I love both speakers and am always more impressed by a great sounding budget speaker than one multi mega dollar design. Thanks for listening. :D


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