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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 8:19 am 
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Would like to try a free dynamic range meter for foobar , just a component add on.
Spent bunch time on one only to find out now they want money.

It is not that important , but thought why not ?

What do you guys use & where did you get ?

Brian

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:54 am 
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Hi Brian, I use foo_dynamic_range.dll, V1.1.1.

It's free.

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/de/free-downloads

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:47 am 
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Glen , I got the 1.1 version , tried the 1.0 version first did not work.

It seems the free version does not have the real time display , just measures the DR.

I tried on a few albums , either MFSL , DCC , Vinyl rip , different masters of CDs etc etc.

What surprised me is that the different types of music had the biggest changes , vinyl rips of the few I checked were not higher dynamic range , and higher end masters did not mean higher DR either.
I can hear the differences in the masters , but seems like DR had little to do with the Sound quality.

I certainly did not test many examples , but popular rock it seems has lowest DR , but in itself means little as far as SQ goes.

Not really results as expected.

I would run DR meter all the time playing if found a full version of the DR test meter , anyone have link to full version ?

Also to note been comparing at work so sound system is not as good as at home so my results maybe skewed somewhat .

Brian

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:07 am 
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Heya, Brian.

For real time waveform analysis you'll have to grab an audio editor package of some sort. Some of these editors will import the TT DR meter plugin:

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/tt_dyna ... foundation

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:50 am 
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Brian, I don't see how dynamic range can be accurately displayed in real time? Maybe a simple VU meter with peak hold capability, but not the DR using the algorithm which the VST and Foobar plugins use. Which by the way, involves psycho-acoustics in the calculation. Extended quiet parts are ignored completely, so the algorithm is useless for classical music....I wouldn't be surprised if Telarc's 1812 came up with a low number. Given that, it might not yield accurate results with any type of music or song that doesn't fit the requirements.

Read the pdf that comes with the download link that Kerry provided. It has quite a bit of useful info.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:58 pm 
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Tried the one Kerry mentioned , it is basically the same as the foobar plug in , averages what one loads into it.

Glen you are right that has to be average over whole song or album to give meaningful results , the real time one seems to take a over time average like a peak hold.

I just can not find that version , would like as part of foobar as well....

Brian

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 12:51 am 
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Are you looking for peak readings of DR? They will happen exactly at peak SPL. Displaying output values will identify the same peaks as DR. They just won't be divided by the RMS level of the entire track, so will be spikier.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:15 pm 
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I guess looking for real time DR meter , that gives on going reading of the range , more less just to give me a feel of what the particular music is doing.

Would be nice to be a foobar add on and displayed as meter , i use tabs so can watch range as playing when feel the need.

I have feeling DR has little to do with SQ to me , but curious to experiment with ,but not wanting to buy display (free is the word).

Brian

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:38 pm 
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Brian, you could always try Foobar's built-in visualizations, the Peak meters and VU meters. They'll run concurrently if not running in full screen mode. They'll give you some idea of the peak vs real-time averages on a per channel basis. It's only a graphical representation, and not a pretty one at that, but it fits the bill for being free... :)

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:54 pm 
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krazyclocks wrote:
I guess looking for real time DR meter , that gives on going reading of the range , more less just to give me a feel of what the particular music is doing.

Would be nice to be a foobar add on and displayed as meter , i use tabs so can watch range as playing when feel the need.

I have feeling DR has little to do with SQ to me , but curious to experiment with ,but not wanting to buy display (free is the word).

Brian



The following post represents MY opinion and may not agree with CAM's position on the subject


Brian, I think that you are finally starting to catch on that the DR figure really has nothing to do with the true Dynamic Range of a recording. DR, IMHO, is a truly useless piece of information that has NO bearing on real life music or its reproduction.

Dynamic Range is, and has always, been defined as the difference between the softest moments and the loudest peak volumes in a piece of music. For most types of music, this usually represents a value between 30db and 60db, with some of the worst compressed extremes dipping into the lower 20dbs and extremely dynamic pieces exceeding 70db. Pretty much anything below 40-45db Dynamic Range sounds harshly compressed and unlistenable to my ears.

Quoted from Wikipedia to make things easier for the uninitiated to grasp

The dynamic range of human hearing is roughly 140 dB. The dynamic range of music as normally perceived in a concert hall doesn't exceed 80 dB, and human speech is normally perceived over a range of about 40 dB.

The 16-bit compact disc has a theoretical dynamic range of about 96 dB for a triangle wave or 98 dB for sinusoidal signals. The perceived dynamic range of 16-bit audio can be as high as 120 dB with noise-shaped dither, taking advantage of the frequency response of the human ear. Digital audio with undithered 20-bit digitization is also theoretically capable of 120 dB dynamic range. Similarly, 24-bit digital audio calculates to 144 dB dynamic range. All digital audio recording and playback chains include input and output converters and associated analog circuitry, significantly limiting practical dynamic range. Observed 16-bit digital audio dynamic range is about 90 dB.

Dynamic range in analog audio is the difference between low-level thermal noise in the electronic circuitry and high-level signal saturation resulting in increased distortion and, if pushed higher, clipping. Multiple noise processes determine the noise floor of a system. Noise can be picked up from microphone self-noise, preamp noise, wiring and interconnection noise, media noise, etc.

Vinyl microgroove phonograph records typically yield 55-65 dB, though the first play of the higher-fidelity outer rings can achieve a dynamic range of 70 dB.


DR, on the other hand, seems to be an average value computed over a full song with the highest peaks and softest moments removed. The normal range of DR figures usually resides in the 5 to 18 range with a select few pieces reaching 20. Note that I did not say db here, because that is not what DR is all about. Anyone using DR figures to claim that high powered amps are not needed to clearly reproduce the most extreme musical peaks without clipping or otherwise truncated, is sadly misinformed and misled by the intention of the DR scale. Like anyone who has actually heard the 1812 Ouverture with its Howitzer blasts really believes it has only 17db of dynamic range ....

End of rant.


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:45 pm 
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If all you are interested in is softest to loudest, just look at your peak meters. Assume 0 is the baseline.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:56 pm 
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Erik wrote:
If all you are interested in is softest to loudest, just look at your peak meters. Assume 0 is the baseline.


What else is there of interest when it comes to Dynamic Range but the softest sound (which I assume must be your baseline 0) and the loudest peak you can encounter in a piece of music and ensuring that 0 must be higher than the noise floor of the equipment reproducing it and that the loudest peak is within the equipment's power output capability so it does not clip or distort Erik?


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:59 pm 
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The "crest factor" which is what I think most DR tools report -- it is the difference between the RMS SPL and the peak SPL. Otherwise, it does not make sense to speak of DR being any different from peak.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 10:09 pm 
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Erik wrote:
The "crest factor" which is what I think most DR tools report -- it is the difference between the RMS SPL and the peak SPL. Otherwise, it does not make sense to speak of DR being any different from peak.


My understanding of the DR measurements is as in my post; the average (RMS) to peak values averaged out over the entire song with the softest and loudest peaks removed. Otherwise, how can you explain a musical piece with a Dynamic range of well over 70db and which has extensive very soft passages (The 1812 Ouverture) only being rated at a 17? What I still fail to understand is the relevance of the averaged RMS value of a song if you must still hear all of those soft passages?


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:09 am 
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I find the Foobar DR plugin a great little tool, and it is the software that provides the data for the Dynamic Range Database. I also use SeeDeeClip Duo Pro, which measures the amount of digital clipping in a track. Eg Stevie Wonders A Time To Love, clips 4131 times for its duration and has an DR of 7. Whereas Stevie Ray Vaughan's 1999 rowdy classic The House is Rockin clips only 10 times for the whole track with a measured DR of 13. Which one would you say was mastered for loudness.

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