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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:31 am 
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According to rumors, the HK 970 amp don't have the awesome bass performance as the legendary old HK amps were known for. The HK amps seemed good in the older days, like for example this http://www.popolo.com/citation.html
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The legendary harman/kardon Citation XX power amplifier is perhaps the best sounding amp ever made. It was designed by world famous Dr. Matti Otala, who discovered and resolved Transient Intermodulation Distortion in 1970. The Citation XX was an at-any-cost project, and is the crowning achievement in amplification's sound quality.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:51 am 
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as is with most vintage gear, even the lower end, the build quality was top of mind. Unlike today's throw away society, the gear from the 50's right through to late 70's, maybe even some early 80's was built to last. This is the case when you see how much of the gear is still around!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:16 am 
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Location: Parkhill, ON, CA
I had the opportunity to hear a full HK Citation series system back in the day.
It was in a renovated church outside the city. For about an hour I believed I was listening to the lady of the house play her grand piano, until I saw her sitting on her couch.
It became my dream system at that point. Can't say the same for the Future Shop stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:22 am 
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Unlike today's throw away society, the gear from the 50's right through to late 70's, maybe even some early 80's was built to last.


Electronics have always been built to a price point. In the 50s to 70s, there was far less variation in the quality of electronic parts (e.g., caps, resistors). There was basically one type. At that time, the variation was in the quality of vacuum tubes from different manufacturers and the quality of the design. We bought a console system that required multiple repairs soon after it was bought from "Bad Boy". As a kid, I remember the TV repairman being a regular fixture in the home, until the Japanese came along and began making TVs that did not need to be "fixed" all the time.

The other point of vintage equipment is, lots of it was made & lots of it has ended up in the landfill. What has survived is the 2% of equipment that have managed to last 50+ years! At some point (generally soon!), vintage equipment will fail and will require significant repairs. In my view the repair costs (if you can't do it yourself) will be more than the item is worth. Ok, if you are a collector and love old radios/ cars/ etc. you know what you are getting into and keeping this vintage equipment alive is part of the fun. However, for the typical person with no electronic skills, it is better to pass on this stuff & get something newer.

For example, I have a tech who told me about a guy who bought a "vintage" Marantz receiver for $500. In the day, they cost less than $300 NEW! The fellow then spent another $600 getting it working again. The tech (who did the work) indicated that for $1100 there are many better used integrated amps on the market. I had to agree. Friends of mine had Marantz receivers back in the day... they were fine for what they were, but they do not compare to modern Rega, Roksan, etc. components. Yes, they will beat out a $200 Sony receiver from Furture Shop, but that is a silly comparison.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:22 am 
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I am using a HK990 in my 2 channel HT setup. I couldn't be happier with it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:31 am 
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I being asked by friends and relatives about the Harman Kardon, Marantz, SONY, stuff sold at Future and other and it's difficult to have them understand that theses brand names are being bought or pick-up by Chineses mass manufacturing and cannot compare to what we knew .
The names are they only common point, otherwise it's cheap throw away stuff....


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:01 am 
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Location: Fairport Beach (in Pickering), ON, CA
My Marantz SR14 EX is sitting on a shelf. When I bought it, it was their flagship receiver. It lasted about five years before it crapped out. The remote control that came with at the time was worth more than many FS or BB receivers! It was truly programmable unlike some others which just download some codes.

My almost 60 year old Dynaco MkII amps are sounding fantastic and there is no reason they can't go another 60 years with a minimal investment to replace caps and resistors in another 20-30 years, and tubes occasionally. Cost of ownership of vintage tube gear is very small compared to length of service. I imagine many went to the landfill because they couldn't get tubes anymore (so they thought), or they didn't replace the caps when required and took out a transformer or two. Of course there's also the other half seeing an amp sitting on a shelf gathering dust - "you'll never get to, just throw it out!"

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Collecting vintage tube Pilot (Pilotone) HiFi gear.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:06 am 
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I Own citation 16 /16A.

I did some mod on those baby (power supply, and recap) ....
very hard to beat .

I love the 16A.

I owned a citation 12 and 19......sold it. To my hear the 16 is better. Did not here the XX


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:07 pm 
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I had a 16a as well. Biggest problem I had with it was it had insufficient heat sinking and ran too hot. Other than that, it's an impressive looking beast, but the Threshold I replaced it with had twice the oomph at half the rated power. It really was no contest.

Now the XX, THAT was an amp of lofty peerage, with nothing to be ashamed of against the likes of Mark Levinson or Krell. Truly, one of the finest amps I've ever heard.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:44 pm 
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well it run quite hot...55 celsius on idle...I warm up my basement with those 16.

I put 4 x 18000 uF and faster recovery rectifier on the power supply.....very great improvement.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:49 pm 
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I'm sure. The 4x10k wasn't much for a 150 watt amp. These days there're phono stages with more capacitance than that...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:10 pm 
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i liked the citation sereies amps back in the day


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:39 pm 
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The old Harmon-Kardon Citation series—I'm only familiar with the solid-state ones—had very seriously engineered power supplies. The modern H-K HT products do not.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:13 pm 
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i think it comes down to manufacturers WANTING stuff to be tossed out.

if you love that new Hk you will likely buy another one once the one you have dies.

unless its a part you can only get from the manufacturer they make nothing from you repairing your stuff.

pretty lousy tactic making stuff disposable but if they didn't then they wouldn't make much money.

i still love the older stuff as i feel it has a much nicer sound, plus i think it looks alot nicer too.. most of the stuff now all look the same.

no more seeing a receiver from 20 feet and knowing exactly what it is (well most)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:13 am 
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sandstorm wrote:
i still love the older stuff as i feel it has a much nicer sound, plus i think it looks alot nicer too..

Image
Image


Last edited by ELOS on Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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