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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:40 pm 
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I have no experience with tubes,but have been thinking about running tube amps for my top end and using my SS monos for my bottom end. Have you tried this? Or is this a bad idea? Cheers


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:15 pm 
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Others may correct me, but I believe that this is a bad idea UNLESS you can match the gain of the two amps. Instead, you could try a tubed CD player, a tubed phono stage, and/or a tubed pre amp. Some companies also produce tube-buffers that can be inserted between components.

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Loyd

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:42 pm 
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To match the gain Could this be done with a multi meter? then adjust the attenuators on the back of my SS amps accordingly? Or would the tube amps have too much gain to match them?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:54 pm 
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I run a biamped rig. They have to built specifically for this as you can easilly screw things up time wise. If I as much as screw with the way my amps are plugged into the wall the sound stage disapears, change an interconnect and things can get real ugly. I wouldn't bother with what you are thinking.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Thanks for your input guys . Tube pre hunting I will go


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:47 am 
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Location: Oakville, ON, CA
I was about to try this as well, probably in a week or two. My amps (SS and tube) do have gain adjustment knobs that will have to be fiddled with. I was going to run this via a Behringer DCX2496 digital crossover so i can play around with crossover values, time delay compensation, and what have you. All the individual components I've bought so far have some resale value, so I'm not too worried if it does not work out. I mainly wanted to get into the 'active speaker' thing, and try out some things like open baffle, etc. that various people seem to be getting good results with. I don't really have other friends who are in to this kind of stuff, so it's going to be a bit of trial and error. I'll post my findings when I've tried it all out.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:09 pm 
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Hi Harry. Please do :)
Cheers,
Csiz

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:19 pm 
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stereoitis, have you removed the internal crossovers from the speakers yet?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Hey, I do this on a regular basis. I have had lots of ppl tell me that its wrong/horrible idea, but I have been very satisfied with the results. I use Totem Mani 2 Sigs quad amped - one OCM 200 SS amp on the driver of each speaker and one Dynaco MK3 tube on the tweeter of each speaker. I do this periodically, whenever I want a change. Im not sure if its good or bad, just interesting! It is a messy affair with all of the power cords and speaker cables and extra long interconnects etc, but certainly worth trying if you have the resources. DUnno if you are going to like it or not, but at least you will have an opinion based on what you have done other than what you have been told/read. Im happy I tried it.

Cheers,
C


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:56 pm 
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samry wrote:
stereoitis, have you removed the internal crossovers from the speakers yet?

My speakers are Nola viper references .They have external crossovers.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Using solid-state for the LF and tubes for the MF/HF seems to be quite popular among listeners.

On principle, I agree with mccsiz: you've got to make sure the gain is matched.

If you are using an electronic crossover which has gain controls you can compensate that way, but if you're passively biamping using the regular passive crossover, that's a lot harder to do.

Some manufacturers go so far as to advise using only identical power amps for biamping.

Certainly when I set up my actively triamped system, using all solid state amps, it sounded like shyte until I bit the bullet and paid a professional who had all the measuring gear to calibrate everything properly. That made a night-and-day difference.

After fooling around with biamping in its active and passive forms, I've come to the conclusion that optimizing the quality of the passive crossover and spending the extra $$ on the highest quality possible amp produces the best results in most cases.

Just my experience, of course. . .


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:49 am 
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If you can afford your Nola Vipers then you can afford vertical active bi-amping.
Only a few speakers are manufactured in this manner.
Your greatest problem has already been solved by your manufacturer - your passive crossovers are external. A few people has destroyed their speakers in pursue of removing their passive crossovers.
Yes, you can use a stereo tube amp for mids/hi and 2 SS mono amps for woofer drivers or 4 mono amps which is best.
But you will find out as you start to enjoy this exceptional system, you will want 2 stereo or 4 monos amps of exact model and manufacture.
Most importantly a good active electronic crossover will allow you to take of control the level of the base and everything else. Slope and Q.
There are many threads about this on CAM. Too much talk about matching, volume levels between lo and hi will be different in active biamping.
This is not the easiest set up and does require some level of technical knowledge and why most people are afraid of active biamping.
As I said, only a few speaker manufactures are fitted with external crossover, why is this ?
Take for instance Dali Mega Line supplies their own active crossover and Magnepan 20.1 externals only.
You owe it to your Nolas to vertical active biamp and you will hear what you have never heard before.
I am not guessing here like so many others, I know, have been doing this for 20 years in my system and will never return using passive crossovers.
Do not let this pass you by with your Nolas Vipers. You are now using 2 channels of power to drive 4 sections of your Nolas without any control.
Vertical active 4 channels of power to 4 sections of your Nolas with control.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:11 am 
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Gain and gain factor are completely different .Gain can be matched and gain factor is not easily altered .If the amplifiers do not have the same gain factor the gain matching will only be correct at the volume setting at which the gains were matched . When marrying solid state and tube amplifiers you must accept that the signal from the tube amplifier will lag the solid state by the phase lag factor of the tube amplifiers output transformer. Hope this helps


Last edited by pelsby on Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:47 pm 
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terryakhan wrote:
If you can afford your Nola Vipers then you can afford vertical active bi-amping.
Only a few speakers are manufactured in this manner.
Your greatest problem has already been solved by your manufacturer - your passive crossovers are external. A few people has destroyed their speakers in pursue of removing their passive crossovers.
Yes, you can use a stereo tube amp for mids/hi and 2 SS mono amps for woofer drivers or 4 mono amps which is best.
But you will find out as you start to enjoy this exceptional system, you will want 2 stereo or 4 monos amps of exact model and manufacture.
Most importantly a good active electronic crossover will allow you to take of control the level of the base and everything else. Slope and Q.
There are many threads about this on CAM. Too much talk about matching, volume levels between lo and hi will be different in active biamping.
This is not the easiest set up and does require some level of technical knowledge and why most people are afraid of active biamping.
As I said, only a few speaker manufactures are fitted with external crossover, why is this ?
Take for instance Dali Mega Line supplies their own active crossover and Magnepan 20.1 externals only.
You owe it to your Nolas to vertical active biamp and you will hear what you have never heard before.
I am not guessing here like so many others, I know, have been doing this for 20 years in my system and will never return using passive crossovers.
Do not let this pass you by with your Nolas Vipers. You are now using 2 channels of power to drive 4 sections of your Nolas without any control.
Vertical active 4 channels of power to 4 sections of your Nolas with control.
Actually I believe I could tri amp, but who makes an active crossover to accomodate ? Also if my Marantz (ma-9s2) 300w each how much power fo mids / hi?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:50 am 
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Pass Labs make the active crossover XVR1 which can be supplied for bi,tri,quad amp and more.(For me this the mother of crossovers, and I know, owned several, and pls donot even think about the digital ones as yet, they are not up to speed)
If you are going to tri-amp, you know, you will need 6 discrete channels of power, meaning 3 stereo or 6 mono.
If your Nolas allows you to tri-amp, I am truly envious. Can you sit back and imagine - 6 channels of power with total control at your finger tips.
I have never owned, heard or seen Marantz amps close upfront, so therefore, I am not qualified to voice an opinion, as the old saying goes" If you haven't heard it then you have no opinion"

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