Canuck Audio Mart

Hi All,

Considering I'm newbie to analog, i'm hoping to get help from you guys troubleshooting my system.

Basically, my issue is this. I recently bought Newform Research r645 speakers with ribbon tweeters. Incredible speakers - astounding clarity, transparency & soundstage. But these speakers have made my analog setup sound less than ideal.

Here's what I have:
Project Xpression III (ortofon 2M red cartridge), Phonobox Preamp & Speedbox, played through a Marantz amp.

What I find:
The CD version of the same albums (I have a cheapo CD player) have a lot more fullness and a better soundstage to them than the Vinyl. I find my records yield much more detail - can hear a lot more, are clean but rather sound thin & dry. The musicality, richness & emotion is missing on the same albums played through my vinyl. Also, the voices aren't totally natural.

I'm totally surprised, as I would expect vinyl would sound much warmer and musical. I came up with the following as potential issues:
- The TT. Do I have to move up, let's say to Rega P3 or P5 to get better musicality?
- The cartridge. I'm thinking of getting dynavector 10x5. Would just getting a new cartridge make a difference?
- The Preamp - Would i need something like a Pro-ject Tubebox?
- Other factors (Anti-vibration platform, bad alignments, clean records etc)

What would you guys suggest? I love the vinyl experience, but I'l unable to enjoy it right now. I'm open to selling my current setup and invest in something a bit higher if it's required.

Thanks!

what kind of Marantz amp do you have? Is it an integrated, or is there a pre-amp as well?

There very well could be something in your vinyl setup that leads to this outcome but, IMO, analog is not inherently superior to digital . There are simply so many variables ( especially software) that what you prefer ( you- not what someone tells you is superior) is what matters.

I'm just mentioning this because analog has become so "cool" that those new to this issue sometimes have expectations built on the cool factor rather than what works best for them.

Approach the whole analog versus digital issue with a very open mind.

I'd start with the setup -- specially the vertical tracking angle. If the cartridge is tracking with too much 'tail up', then the sound is as you describe.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_e.html for an interesting, 'entertaining' read.

I'd get the TT checked out for cart. alignment and arm set up, perhaps a little isolation under the TT wouldn't hurt either. Going up to the Rega would be a definite improvement but i'd deal with the issues at hand first.

The Pro-ject is lean sounding (I have one). A change to a Rega style table (P3 or higher) will give you warmth and scale, even with a modest cartridge like an Ortofon 2M Red

I bought some B&W N805s which were really very lean sounding using my Pro-Ject but big and full sounding with my Rega P5.

Did your turntable sound better with your previous speakers?

It's more likely to be the turntable setup than anything else especially if you're running a cheapo CD throught the same amplification. If not that then the phonobox.

I thought these turntables came with a factory setup. The only thing that might change is the tracking force if you fiddle with it. Since you describe the vinyl sound as thin and detailed you might try increasing the tracking force from the current setting.

It's possible you may simply prefer the sound of digital to vinyl. Vinyl is an acquired taste for many.

Hit up your friends, and see if you can borrow another preamp and/or phono pre. A simple switch out would be the easiest first off, (to see if it's those units that are contributing to the problem). It just saves you setting up the table before eliminating those components as potential problem contributors. I found personally that the phono pre is a huge variable, and you basically have to find one that fits your system/budget and has synergy with the rest of the stuff. I personally like tube phono pre's myself. If it still sounds poor with a different (and hopefully higher end unit(s), then the tt is more of a suspect. gl.

did you try different records? Maybe the recording was bad. Even the same album (song), they are not exactly the same. With analog, it is indeed more involved in the setup. Sometimes a small change can make a difference. For example, I changed a record clamp and heard more beefy sound... For some people it is fun. For others, it could be annoyed. That 's why they say for turntable, if it is set up the right way, can give you magical sound. The key words are "if it is set up the right way".

Plug the phono stage into the tape in of the marantz. This is the most direct path. See what happens?

One of the more helpful replies.....

Ignore the unhelpful replies about digital vs. analogue. There is something wrong if your CD player sounds better than your analogue rig.
You should not have to change your turntable.
As more helpful members have suggested, it could be a set-up problem. if correct set-up (alignment, weight, VTA, etc.) doesn't do it, then you should start looking at the cheap cartridge and phono stage, as they are the obvious things to change for improved performance. Find someone who knows how to set-up a turntable properly, and can offer advice on where to make improvements without diving too deeply into your wallet.

This is not fact as you suggest.

Far too many variables may exist that could contribute to a listener not preferring vinyl over digital not the least of which may be that he may simply prefer the way digital sounds. Moreso if the listener has digital has his reference.

You are derailing the thread, and not helping the original poster.
Move on.

And you telling the OP that there must be something wrong because his CD player sounds better to him is helping him? Maybe the OP is like many others and simply prefers the way digital sounds.