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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:04 pm 
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hello again, Frank.
Out of interest to me, what sort of price are we talking to complete such a diy project (Ok, the big case is alone maybe 200USD$ +)
all the best,
Nathan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:39 pm 
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natedog wrote:
hello again, Frank.
Out of interest to me, what sort of price are we talking to complete such a diy project (Ok, the big case is alone maybe 200USD$ +)
all the best,
Nathan



Hi Nathan,

It has been a while my friend...

For F6 build, roughly around 800 to 1000 something.
Chassis as you mentioned around 300CAD;
Kit plus parts on board around 250CAD;
Power supply (Transformer, caps and etc) 200CAD;
Other miscellaneous 50CAD...

Frank

-- 05 Oct 2017 00:42 --

Power supply..soft start...


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 Post subject: F6 built by UK friend
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:48 pm 
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more pics...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Very Nice!
Just a few parts questions :
On your power supply bottom portion, I see an EMI filter, toroid, rectifier, I'm guessing the board with 2 relays and transformer is the soft start, and is the green board with 2 caps a DC filter? What is the extra relay for and what is the board with just 2 relays for?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:47 am 
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dazed2 wrote:
Very Nice!
Just a few parts questions :
On your power supply bottom portion, I see an EMI filter, toroid, rectifier, I'm guessing the board with 2 relays and transformer is the soft start, and is the green board with 2 caps a DC filter? What is the extra relay for and what is the board with just 2 relays for?


Hi,

It's not built by me...built "by" a UK friend...the F6 boards and parts were provided by me, and as collecting parts is part of DIY so I got his permission and posted his photos here...hope could illustrate some F6 build ideas...as you can see the UK friend is quite good at building ;-)

Yep, green board with 2 caps is a DC filter...and the board with 2 relays (no transformer) is speaker protection(relay is 12V DC, and I think the board must have some voltage regulator such as 7812 go get 12V DC), and probably some timing circuit.

The path is like this:
AC In ->small transformer (under PSU board) -> 2 caps DC filter board (Green board) -> Speaker protection board

My build was not like this complicated...something like the original factory made F6...simple NTC and fuse, transformer and PSU, F6 amp board, and that's it...

Frank


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Frank Wang wrote:
Hi,

It's not built by me...built "by" a UK friend...the F6 boards and parts were provided by me, and as collecting parts is part of DIY so I got his permission and posted his photos here...hope could illustrate some F6 build ideas...as you can see the UK friend is quite good at building ;-)

Yep, green board with 2 caps is a DC filter...and the board with 2 relays (no transformer) is speaker protection(relay is 12V DC, and I think the board must have some voltage regulator such as 7812 go get 12V DC), and probably some timing circuit.

The path is like this:
AC In ->small transformer (under PSU board) -> 2 caps DC filter board (Green board) -> Speaker protection board

My build was not like this complicated...something like the original factory made F6...simple NTC and fuse, transformer and PSU, F6 amp board, and that's it...

Frank


Ahh I see. But what is that small transformer for under the PSU? I'm assuming that is the blue box on the board, which I thought was a relay.
That is a lot of extra work with the power supply! NICE!
Sometimes the complication at the power supply side is necessary to get better and more stable voltage delivery to the rest of the circuit.
Even more important the smaller the input signal.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:46 am 
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dazed2 wrote:
Ahh I see. But what is that small transformer for under the PSU? I'm assuming that is the blue box on the board, which I thought was a relay.
That is a lot of extra work with the power supply! NICE!
Sometimes the complication at the power supply side is necessary to get better and more stable voltage delivery to the rest of the circuit.
Even more important the smaller the input signal.


Sometimes, yes, not always...kind of a dilemma actually...
If don't have to, I'd prefer the less/simpler the better - good for the sound, and more stable ... less parts means less chances getting trouble, therefore more stable;
Some circumstances, have to put "extra" safety (don't want blow up speakers and such) ...depends on the design...some designs do not require extra protection...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Frank & Paul, awesome threads... I spent over an hour reading all of these 13 pages. Glad to have DIY expert on CAM. After reading on the F5 and F6, I am starting to have the F6 virus as well...but need time and more time to do this "nice hobby". I have always been buying my gears but I work at Celestica (844 Don Mills Road - Toronto) for 18 years and have all the soldering experience but due to family and kids, no time to build my 'dream' gears. One day... thanks for the inspiration. Cheers guys. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:59 am 
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Apogee77 wrote:
Frank & Paul, awesome threads... I spent over an hour reading all of these 13 pages. Glad to have DIY expert on CAM. After reading on the F5 and F6, I am starting to have the F6 virus as well...but need time and more time to do this "nice hobby". I have always been buying my gears but I work at Celestica (844 Don Mills Road - Toronto) for 18 years and have all the soldering experience but due to family and kids, no time to build my 'dream' gears. One day... thanks for the inspiration. Cheers guys. :)


The same here...young kids and busy at work. I also bought a bunch of factory made gears...DIY is just for fun, and turned out not bad(or even better;-) Even though knowing it won't be some time soon, still looking forward to your great works, if anything, feel free to discuss...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:57 am 
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Apogee77 wrote:
Frank & Paul, awesome threads... I spent over an hour reading all of these 13 pages. Glad to have DIY expert on CAM. After reading on the F5 and F6, I am starting to have the F6 virus as well...but need time and more time to do this "nice hobby". I have all the soldering experience ... One day... thanks for the inspiration. Cheers guys. :)

In terms of an expert, you must be referring to Frank.

I'm presently soldering using Cardas Eutectic Quad (tin/lead/silver/copper) - it has a melting temperature of 384 oF
and its very easy to work with. However, I'm not too pleased with working with lead.
Have any suggestions about working with lead free solder ?

One thing, I'm of the opinion that its important to get good metal to metal contact between the circuit components,
before the solder is added.

.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:21 am 
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Uunderhill wrote:
Apogee77 wrote:
Frank & Paul, awesome threads... I spent over an hour reading all of these 13 pages. Glad to have DIY expert on CAM. After reading on the F5 and F6, I am starting to have the F6 virus as well...but need time and more time to do this "nice hobby". I have all the soldering experience ... One day... thanks for the inspiration. Cheers guys. :)

In terms of an expert, you must be referring to Frank.

I'm presently soldering using Cardas Eutectic Quad (tin/lead/silver/copper) - it has a melting temperature of 384 oF
and its very easy to work with. However, I'm not too pleased with working with lead.
Have any suggestions about working with lead free solder ?

One thing, I'm of the opinion that its important to get good metal to metal contact between the circuit components,
before the solder is added.

.

No manufacturer is allowed to use solder containing Lead so use is limited now to hobbyists and unregulated service/repair shops.
That said, I do still prefer working with the older rosin core, Lead containing solder as it seems to flow much better!

To be fair, I've not tried the most recent products from companies like Kester through distributors such as Digikey.
Distributors often have online presentations of best practices to work with the newer solders.

As to metal to metal contact before soldering, consider how printed circuit boards are populated and soldered?

A tiny proportion of PCB contract assembly is though-hole using components with pins and leads.
These are placed by robotic machines so that the pins or leads fall into holes in the circuit boards.
Holes are sized, drilled and plated to that pins and leads have clearance.
There "might" be metal to metal contact but that is not by design.
The circuit board is floated over a pool bath of molten solder and flux. Solder fills all holes and gaps.

All of the rest of PCB assembly uses surface mount (SMT) components.
The flat leads on the components are plated.
The pads on the circuit board are usually plated.
Solder in a paste form is screened on the pads to form a thin, uniform layer.
The component is placed in position so that the leads align with the printed circuit board pads.
The entire circuit board is then heated so that the solder paste melts. The component drops slightly, the temperature is reduced and the solder hardens.

Would actually be considered a process defect to have any direct metal to metal contact here!

Soldering processes are very well defined and even regulated to reduce defects with billions or maybe trillions of solder connections each year.
The US Government MIL standards were the driving force with this work in the 50's and 60's when more commercial standards came into place.
Now commercial associations maintain standards for soldering of every imaginable type of component and circuit board.

A visit to your local electronic contract assembly shop could be helpful to understand how industry solders components with extremely low failure rate.
Even hand soldering will be done by trained workers who are certified to industry standards using controlled equipment and solder.

At least that's my experience.......


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:01 am 
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jst_canuck wrote:
As to metal to metal contact before soldering, consider how printed circuit boards are populated and soldered?
A tiny proportion of PCB contract assembly is though-hole using components with pins and leads.

Exactly, there is a gap between a component's lead and the circuit board.
Then the gap is bridged with solder.
That's why many people still prefer P to P wiring with tubes and speaker crossovers

As I mentioned, Cardas Eutectic solder (tin/lead/silver/copper) flows very nicely melting point 195oC / 384oF
but I'm tired of working with lead.

I have Kester 95 % tin and 5% silver - melting temp 243 oC
but it does not flow easily, probably because I need a higher temp iron.

Other solders

Mundorf M-solder (tin/copper/silver/gold) melting point 217 oC / 423oF
but the price - ouch !
Plus it probably needs a higher temp iron

Johnson IA-423 (tin/silver/copper) also 217 oC / 423 oF
but the use of additional flux is recommended
.
Any recommendations ?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:47 am 
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Uunderhill wrote:
Exactly, there is a gap between a component's lead and the circuit board.
Then the gap is bridged with solder.
That's why many people still prefer P to P wiring with tubes and speaker crossovers.
Any recommendations ?
I tried many kind of solder.
But silver screw crimps are the best for electrical junctions.

There are 142 of these in my monoblocks.
Attachment:
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Uunderhill wrote:
jst_canuck wrote:
As to metal to metal contact before soldering, consider how printed circuit boards are populated and soldered?
A tiny proportion of PCB contract assembly is though-hole using components with pins and leads.

Exactly, there is a gap between a component's lead and the circuit board.
Then the gap is bridged with solder.
That's why many people still prefer P to P wiring with tubes and speaker crossovers

As I mentioned, Cardas Eutectic solder (tin/lead/silver/copper) flows very nicely melting point 195oC / 384oF
but I'm tired of working with lead.

I have Kester 95 % tin and 5% silver - melting temp 243 oC
but it does not flow easily, probably because I need a higher temp iron.

Other solders

Mundorf M-solder (tin/copper/silver/gold) melting point 217 oC / 423oF
but the price - ouch !
Plus it probably needs a higher temp iron

Johnson IA-423 (tin/silver/copper) also 217 oC / 423 oF
but the use of additional flux is recommended
.
Any recommendations ?



I have been smt engineer for 20 years - wave and surface mount technology & vapor phase soldering at Celestica. Worked on IBM z-series highend server for 7 years, etc... I recommend
http://www.indium.com/solders/wire/indium-wire/

https://buy.solder.com/Solder-Wire/C61_1/

Indium has real Research and Development and many companies use them for reliability and etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:48 pm 
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$95 for a 3 ft length of indium wire? That's crazy spendy


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