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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:35 am 
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nick_v wrote:
Keep in mind that Anthem digitizes all the analog inputs (ADC -> DSP -> DAC) to run ARC so if you're an analog purist I would stay away.


That was one reason I chose the Anthem (pre-ARC). This baby can run as a truly analogue gain stage.

I had an Anthem receiver with ARC prior to the AVM40, which I used as a pre/pro ... the ARC made a bit of difference in my room for movies, but was definitely not an advantage for music, but then my room measures quiet well as-is.

Running a good DAC into a pre/pro, putting it through another ADC/DAC conversion with processing ... definitely sucks life out of the music. Using the AVM40 as a DAC and volume, it crosses over for 2.1 while still in the digital domain, and then passes that through an analogue gain stage. Very transparent, I can't hear any ill effects (actually my Studio 100s and everything else performs a bit better with the bass crossed over to a 12" sub, though sometimes I do prefer to listed in 2.0 with the bass really well integrated and more in the background).


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:52 am 
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speedy1 wrote:
An Anthem D2 sounds almost as good as a Copland 305 tube pre. I heard both for extended times often.
The D2 has many more inputs and outputs than most and has upgraded better than AVR's.
There are RCA, XLR as well as AES/EBU and it upsamples everything since it also has a very good DAC system. Has 3 optical digital inputs and a bunch of HDMI and the list goes on and on. There is an ARC microphone system to fine tune the room and speaker output you use it with a computer.

The thing was almost 10K and people lined up to pay. You can get one for around $1500 to $2000 and a bit higher in 2017. Use it in pure 2 chanell or more than 2 channel.
Hard to get better for the money and features provided you have a very high resolution system. If you dont you wont hear how good it really is.


Just keep in mind that if you're using it with a high quality outboard DAC, you're kind of defeating the purpose as it will digitize the analog signal, and then run back through the internal DAC. I don't believe there is any way to defeat that in the D2. If you're using the D2 as a DAC, then I'm sure it sounds great. Might not be the best for the OP as he's planning on using it with an external DAC.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:45 am 
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The digital conversion/upsampling system in the Anthem Statement D2 line is surprisingly good.
No need to buy an outboard DAC. No need for DSD. Stick with PCM. Just hook up a new to the market DH Labs GLASS FIBRE TOSLINK and you can call your Uncle ""Bob!"

One can even use a high quality plastic toslink and get outstanding results. It is very good because it upsamples to a really high rate. Little wonder Reviewers freaked out over this thing and claimed it to be a real cost effective machine equal to preamps way higher in price and a good buy at the already nosebleed purchase price. Anthems top of line stuff is very well designed and made. Their made in China stuff? Not so much. It is as good as it gets.

You should check out their $100,000 dollar speakers from their Martin Logan line. Not your Grandfathers hifi stuff anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:55 am 
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A number of people have commented on Anthem, I had their Statement D1 (with ARC) years back before I swapped to a dedicated 2 ch setup. I went from the D1 to a Naim 202 pre (at the time, retail new was about half the price for the Naim) & I felt the 202 was much better sounding all around. I was using the D1 with an Anthem amp, MCA-50 & with the 202 I was using a Naim 150X. At the time I was actually rather surprised how much better the Naim setup was.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:35 am 
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Perhaps if you had an Anthem P2 amp and an Anthem D2 pre or even an Anthem D1 pre with a P2 amp as these are more synergystic than an MCA50. Regardless you need a 20 amp electric line for the P2 and perhaps at minimum a 20 amp dedicated electric line for your MCA 50 seeing as the P5 requires two 20 amp dedicated electrical lines to sing rather than to whisper.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:03 am 
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speedy1 wrote:
Perhaps if you had an Anthem P2 amp and an Anthem D2 pre or even an Anthem D1 pre with a P2 amp as these are more synergystic than an MCA50. Regardless you need a 20 amp electric line for the P2 and perhaps at minimum a 20 amp dedicated electric line for your MCA 50 seeing as the P5 requires two 20 amp dedicated electrical lines to sing rather than to whisper.



The D2 only adds HDMI switching vs the D1, audio portion is the same (I had mine upgraded with ARC). Might have been a slight difference in amps but one would assume changing the pre to have a much greater impact. Using just 2ch of the MCA50 should not require a dedicated 20amp line. While great for HT, I personally feel Anthem isn't the best option for 2ch but as can be seen in this thread, others are happy. As in all things audio, let your own ears decide.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:39 am 
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daren_p wrote:
While great for HT, I personally feel Anthem isn't the best option for 2ch but as can be seen in this thread, others are happy. As in all things audio, let your own ears decide.


It is a reasonable compromise for those of us who wish to have the capability of stereo and surround from the same system. Were I into strictly 2-channel, my system would be radically different from bottom to top.

I can't deny that a part of me would like to ditch the surround, and use a really good source, amplification and speakers (of the likes of Linn, Sonus Faber, Focal etc.) ... but I'm raising a family, and family is much more important to me than this hobby. Also, they like movies, and I won't deny that I do as well ...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:20 am 
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Everyone's tastes are different of course but I am using the Anthem AVM60 which replaced a Weiss DAC2 and Audio Research LS25 mk2 combo (with HT passed through to a Krell pre/pro) and I don't feel like I'm missing anything on the 2 channel side of things as the AVM60 DAC is very nicely implemented. I am only using digital sources however, so I might feel differently with a vinyl front end going back through an unwanted ACD to DAC conversion. The Anthem also crushes the Krell for home theatre duties. So I have to say that yes, for me in the proper setup, a good AV pre/pro can absolutely deliver the 2 channel goods and certainly makes sub integration a whole lot easier.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:53 am 
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I'm also using an AVM60 as my pre-pro in my LR system and it serves as a very good 2 channel pre-amp for vinyl as well. I recently changed power amps from Bryston to Krell and frankly, the sound is extremely good. The un-processed / direct mode is basically a simple gain stage (no a/d/a involved) at all.

I have no doubt that there are a number of good 5.1 pre-pros out there that used to cost kilo-bucks that have good 2 channel sound that are now going dirt cheap because of the lack of hdmi and/or 7.1/11.1 Atmos etc. I'd be looking for the obvious hi end brands and especially those with direct settings where there is no processing or a/d involved.

Anthem, Krell, Lexicon, Cary, I'm sure there's more.

Having said that, I wouldn't call that approach a beer budget, as you still have to par it with some decent amplification. More like a blended scotch than an 18 yr old Macallan. They'll both get you hammered, but one may just be a nicer ride...

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Video: Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, Totem Mani-2s, M1 centre, Rega P6/RB2K, 17D3, Ph1, Paradigm sub, Totem Mite surr/back


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:34 pm 
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RSP-1068 Rotel. I acquired one of these when I bought a Rotel RMB-1075 to power my surrounds and center channel. Didn't have any use for it so it ended up in storage. Out of curiousity one day I plugged the thing into my main system and selected two channel analoge and had a listen.

I think it does a surprising job as a two channel pre. I don't remember any of the Bryston pres I had as sounding noticeably better and in some cases, no better. So long storey short I think there are probably several 5.1 pres out there that would make a good budget 2 channel pre.

Just make sure you find one that does 2 channel out without processing and don't expect it to keep pace with some of the better two channel pres.

I basically got this one for free because I paid no more for the pair than everybody else was asking for the amp alone. There must be other similar deals out there.

Just my two cents...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:26 pm 
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guzziguy56 wrote:
Have to agree with padboy1 , good deals to be had.
I'm running a Tube phono-pre into a Proceed AVP with very
good (to me ) results . Original price of Proceed was near
$7000 can. I got for less than a tenth of that . Only using
it for 2 channel .
And I'll agree with you. I have the proceed avp as well and I like it a lot. I think the line section is better than my Exposure 17, The D/A in it is dated but still sounds good(Due the lack of cabling?), But my first generation Benchmark DAC is a step up. I'd call it a toss-up between the Proceed and my updated original Audible Illusions tube preamp. i paid $400US for my Proceed that had recently been serviced and consider it a steal. I also have a Proceed amp2 and that is very nice as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Thanks gents I appreciate the comments. Thoughtful responses all around.

I think I'll up my budget to $2k as there does seem to be a large number of near SOTA used pre & pre/pro available at that price point. The Anthem D2 really piques my interest. I've also decided that I can (cough) forgo the remote if the right dedicated 2 channel pre comes along.

The problem I have is actually hearing any of them in my small market city so here I am on CAM trying to figure out what's the best herb to put in my audio pipe.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:43 am 
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http://hometheaterreview.com/outlaw-audio-model-975-71-av-surround-sound-processor-reviewed/ --- https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/975.html

https://www.caryaudio.com/products/cinema-12/

https://www.avforums.com/threads/primare-sp32-sp33.930134/
http://forums.audioreview.com/amps-preamps/primare-sp33-vs-marantz-av8801-39625.html
http://forums.audioreview.com/amps-preamps/primare-sp33-vs-bryston-sp3-39645.html

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:06 am 
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Location: niagara falls, ON, CA
i had my home theater and 2 channel in one system for years and as my equipment got
better i felt the av pro-pre was the week link for music. so i ended up getting a 5 channel amp for my
center channel and rears and a good 2 channel amp for my to front mains. then i got a good
2 channel preamp for my music. all i do is switch the cables on the 2 channel amp when i listen to vinyl.
i have since bought a tube preamp for music and couldn't be happier. you could use a switchbox
if you don't want to do the plug unplug thing. i use a linn kinos (no hdmi) and an oppo blue ray
player and my ht system sounds great. i use the hdmi on the oppo and the analog connections
on the linn. the linn kinos can be found cheap these days. a 2 channel preamp does something for
music that a av pro-pre can't do imho. john


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm 
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I can't tell ....'ALL' you 'Crazy Audio Canucker's' how much,I like/enjoy,hearing you add your thoughts and suggestions,to this thread(Positively)as it was right up my alley,& 'Very Informative!

Seems very timely too,as a good friend has me once again leaning my old back towards the idea of merging 2ch & HT,especially after all his talk/enthusiasm of incorporating several 18-21 in subs(in towers,still in the design phase),& both our recent foray into Mini-Dsp.

I so enjoy Listening to Music & watching concerts,& movies,especially still hold a special place in my Music(Heart),but so does 2ch too,& I've spent countless late hours trying to blend the two,very hard on my beer budget!
Must add Great Soundtracks add so much to a movie!

I think I've wrestled with marrying up 2ch & Movies/concerts,well since I subscribed to U.H.F Magazine,years ago where in depth discussions,covered this very topic in great detail,over many issues.

Obviously I've been Way out of this 'Combo-Loop' for some time,so appreciate/am fascinated by what many have accomplished in the interim,and,especially their sharing of opinions/out looks,regarding the 'bargains',still to be had to accomplish the 'Combo',obviously many of you have done this with great success.
All I can say is Well done!.....And Thanks for sharing!

To the original poster,I'd like to congratulate you in realizing 'Family' does come first,your Family time is most important,and will pay off in spades,as time rolls on.Mine did,nuff said.

To say I/We Enjoy Rock/etc.,Concerts is an Understatement,as Music playback & Visuals are Both at such a High Caliber,that many times I/We feel like were immediately transported there,which for certain tells me we really have accomplished 'something Special',with much technology,melding together seamlessly,now giving users very 'Live' presentations right at Home!

My fairly recent foray into OB speakers/Mini-Dsp was a Big ear opener for me,in fact jump starting many changes-n-upgrades,so I very much like this thread's.... 'Intentions',however realize its very subjective to our distinctive,varied life styles & of course very personal tastes,all of which can be satisfied,whereas not too many years ago could Not!...Wow,Big Strides here!

There are,now available,so many 'Paths to Audio/Visual Enlightenment',that the exact taste we desire/Enjoy,is definitely attainable,and this mere fact I think can cause much mass confusion,as there are in my opinion,now,far too choices,so threads like this are so very help full,Thank You!

As I'm heading to a final retirement system,I think I may want to take one last go at trying to 'Mesh' HT & 2 ch?
It would take some more time,but from what I've heard-n-said in this thread,many of you have reached a point where I believe you are more than 'Happy' with your results.

Me,I'm still in shock at what some of those pre-amps cost new!

EP Concert Kenny,upgrading from EP 4.3-4.7,YES!
Tonight's concert/movie,SHELTER,16mm Moonshine Experiment No3..a Surfing Documentary,looking forward to this as my 1st introduction to the California Surf scene happened way back in 1968,when my Beautiful Cousin took me to Huntington Beach Calif,to watch some real Surfers!...she had Surfer Girl-Friends,are you kidding me!..O.M.G!...Holy Crap,so Amazing to watch & even more thrilling to Experience!......and those California girls,phew,I need a drink,ha,Ha,ha!


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