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 Post subject: Musical Paradise MP-501
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:31 am
Posts: 42
Location: Thorsby, AB, CA
Can anyone explain to me why my 55 watt class A Musical Paradise MP-501 integrated has the power output equal to or greater than my Phase Linear 400 @ 210 watts? It is running KT120 and CRC 6JS7 tubes


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:47 pm
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Location: Leduc, AB, CA
Your MP-501 is a much better piece of equipment and will sound much more realistic at realistic (read lower) volume levels. Secondly, and particularly because you are comparing tubes with SS, there is not really that much difference in their output capabilities. Cheers!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:18 pm
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Location: St. John's, NL, CA
A watt is a watt is a watt... So I'm told. But, every amp will have a different sound. How can 50 watts be more powerful than 200 watts? I don't believe that it can, in theory, be more power. However, a good 50 watts will sound better than an inferior amp that runs 200 watts.

Take, for example, my old Philips 5x100 receiver that had a built in blu ray player and was very thin given what it outputs.

And then compare it to my old NAD 316... The NAD was much much less into both channels driven compared to 1 channel driven by the Philips. The NAD sounded louder, and much much better. Even when paired with the same pair of PSB Century 300s... And that's only the beginning...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:31 am
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Location: Thorsby, AB, CA
Thanks. I was always under the impression, that if power ratings were genuine, then everything should be the same. But when a 55 watt tube amp smokes a 210 watt solid state amp , then specs are gone out the window.

I am far from a Newbie. I have found musical bliss with my Musical Paradise MP-501. I can't believe that you can buy them new for $1600 ($1300 refurbished). Buy one and never worry about another amp or preamp.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:04 pm
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Location: saskatoon, SK, CA
this tube watt thing always seems to return...

as another mentioned, a watt is a watt. the reason valves may seem louder is a) tube amps are usually mated to more efficient speakers and/or b) the distortion curves of valves are more "forgiving" than ss transistors.

that's my take.

oh, as well, consider how the ss amps output was rated. sometimes those numbers can be a bit exaggerated.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
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Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
Don't forget that you double the power to get 3db more.

So your 210w amplifier can gives you less than 6db louder, if they are needed. Your musical paradise gives you more quality than quantity I guess.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
I just traded in a Copelend CTA 505 amp, quad kt88 34w/ch in triode, for a pair of Manley Mahi mono blocks, EL84 20w/ch in triode. everything else in the system is the same. with the Copeland I usually found -34db setting on the pre was a usual listening volume on digital input and -18db for phono.
on the Manley today those settings would be far too loud for my chair and comfortable listening was -42db for digital and phono was -28db.
I have no measuring device other than my ears but the lesser wattage Manley's are certainly louder at the same volume setting than the Copeland.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:29 am 
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Location: Edmonton, AB, CA
patate91 wrote:
Don't forget that you double the power to get 3db more.
Your musical paradise gives you more quality than quantity I guess.


Ding ding, you win the Internet.

Tube watts are truly quality watts. Lots of SS amps are over rated on power output and vary widely on the class in which they are biased. You only really listen to the first few watts and tubes excel at small signal amplification, Solid state amps usually excel at high power levels.

I like to think of tubes as a variable tone control for the devices they are plugged into. Some people roll different OP Amps in SS gear for the same purpose and you can also roll in different capacitors in SS or Tube gear for that "different" sound.

Another way of looking at things is the fact that Tubes are "voltage" amplifiers and SS are generally "current" amplifiers. Some speakers (horns) excel with tube gear and some speakers (Maggie's) thrive on SS gear. I've heard Maggie's sound great on the MP501 and I've heard La Scala's sound good on Bryston 4b's. Will you get the best out of your Maggie's on Tube gear, probably not as the tubes will run out of steam whereas your PL400 will keep on trucking and deliver more currrent and not clip the output delivering better sound.

On the subject of clipping, tubes gracefully clip when pushed and produce 2nd (or even) Harmonic distortion, SS gear clips hard and produces DC voltage and 3rd harmonics which are more audible to humans. Would you hookup a car battery or welder to your speakers? This is how voice coils melt and clipping tubes are very current limited and will not usually fry voice coils as easy.

Watts are indeed watts, it's how they are produced that matters and to my ears Tubes seem to sound better at low power levels where most of us listen to music in the home. I'd like to think that most arena concerts would not be best served with Tube gear but quality high watt SS amps that can push those compression drivers to their limits. Also don't forget that we evolved from tubes to Solid State for reliability! Tube gear requires regular maintenance whereas SS gear should run forever when abused.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:02 am 
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vintagestereos wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why my 55 watt class A Musical Paradise MP-501 integrated has the power output equal to or greater than my Phase Linear 400 @ 210 watts? It is running KT120 and CRC 6JS7 tubes

I may be mistaken here...if i am im sorry..
But are you the Cam member who was selling or giving away that amp earlier this week as advertised on a now banned ad?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 427
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
What are you driving the Phase Linear with?Original 400 needed at least 1 volt for rated output.
Series II with the input controls needs to be wide open(fully CW) and still needs a volt.

As mentioned a watt is a watt clean or dirty.

Gary


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