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 Post subject: Primare I32 Integrated
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:04 am 
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Hi CAM;

So the story goes that a dealer I've known for 15-20 years thinks that my amplification "is very nice but flat and cold sonically by design" and I should move toward "more audiophile, open, warm and spatial."

I'm bi-amping a pair of B&W 804 D2's using 2 Denon POA-2200's. He has told me that he using a Primare I32 Integrated on a new pair of 804's in the showroom and "sound phenomenal with this amp!"

I've also been experimenting with Class A tube amplification which I really like but my dealer has suggested that tubes "tend to sound very warm but slow and less dynamic. High quality Solid State Audio offers warmth and great dynamics."

He has offered to lend me the Primare I32 Integrated but I have my reservations using a Class D amp.

Anyone have experience with a Primare I32 Integrated? I would really like to hear from those who have hands on experience with this amp.

Thanks in advance,

Audiois1st

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:19 am 
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Borrow the Primare.I used my buddy's back up Primare for a while while my amp was being serviced.I fell in love with it!It wasn't the same model but I would suspect sonics would be similar.Awsome little integrateds!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:05 pm 
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I can't see how you could go wrong.
Being able to use it at home, with your current speakers/system is the ultimate way to try it out.
Is there a reason you would have reservations?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:53 pm 
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The Primare is a fantastic piece. Just do it as you won't be disappointed. I also wouldn't call it Class D per say. UFPD is something special.

Try it and you will get it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:03 am 
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scarbpaul12;

After experiencing pure Class A tube power and really enjoying it I wasn't sure I wanted to go Class D. I also honestly had never heard of Primare before he suggested I try the I32. I told my dealer I was open to trying the Primare so maybe I can get it on loan for a while to try it.

BlackSandAudio;

What else in your opinion could you compare the I32 too? Other brands and models.

Thanks,

Audiois1st

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:18 am 
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I've once listened to Primare I21 integrated amp hooked to Dynaudio Confidence C4 speakers. Impressive sounding amp, huge open sound with lots of details from the deepest bass up through midrange and treble, and it could really make the Dyn's bass units work! The sound character from Primare I21 is somewhat towards the warm side that gives glow to the music. It was a magical experience to hear a sweet female jazz singer's voice, it was like getting massage in my ears. It was like if I could almost sense and smell the cigar smoke in the Jazz room (there was no smoke in the listening room!), yes, that setup sounded that good!

I haven't listened to Primare's latest gears, but since I was impressed with Primare I21, I can only imagine Primare I32 may even be a better performer.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/primare-i32-integrated-amp/
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/primare-i32-integrated-amp/?page=2

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:23 am 
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'laddie15' from https://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=303394 says that Primare I30 is warmer sounding and more powerful than the Primare I32, and Primare I32 only received 3 stars out of 5 by https://www.whathifi.com/primare/i32/review

'Lee Harvey' from http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/primare-i32-integrated-amp-and-optional-dac.521549/ says Primare I32 is a very fast sounding amp and have no problem controlling the bass units, though he says that it's sound character leans little to the bright side from neutral, which means you probably need slightly warm sounding speaker cables.

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/primare-i32-vs-i30-sound-quality-comments-appreciated
Quote:
'busb' says: >>I heard the Primare I32 against MF's M6i & Naim's Nait XS driving a pair of SF Cremonas. The M6i sounded a little too smooth & warm for my tastes. The Nait sounded great - lively, engaging but the I32 had all that but with far more detail which seems to be trait of class D amplification. I found the sound & build of the Primare extremely good! I now have a Primare A34.2 class D power amp driven directly from an audiolab M-DAC. It builds on the strengths of the I32's power amp section. Very fast, pretty dynamic, great bass control & stunning detail & imaging. The Primare I32 would probably best suited to speakers that are not overly bright - it will reveal shortcomings in recordings but will reward well-recorded stuff. I find my stereo dfficult to stay still too!<<


Last edited by ELOS on Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:23 am 
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Audiois1st wrote:
scarbpaul12;

After experiencing pure Class A tube power and really enjoying it I wasn't sure I wanted to go Class D. I also honestly had never heard of Primare before he suggested I try the I32. I told my dealer I was open to trying the Primare so maybe I can get it on loan for a while to try it.

BlackSandAudio;

What else in your opinion could you compare the I32 too? Other brands and models.

Thanks,

Audiois1st


The Creek 100A has a lot of similarities to both the I22 and I32 and is another all around nice sounding piece. If you haven't heard Class G before, it's worth a listen.

-- 15 Jun 2017 10:31 --

ELOS wrote:
'laddie15' from https://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=303394 says that Primare I30 is warmer sounding and more powerful than the Primare I32, and Primare I32 only received 3 stars out of 5 by https://www.whathifi.com/primare/i32/review

'Lee Harvey' from http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/primare-i32-integrated-amp-and-optional-dac.521549/ says Primare I32 is a very fast sounding amp and have no problem controlling the bass units, though he says that it's sound character leans little to the bright side from neutral, which means you probably need slightly warm sounding speaker cables.

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/primare-i32-vs-i30-sound-quality-comments-appreciated
Quote:
'busb' says: >>I heard the Primare I32 against MF's M6i & Naim's Nait XS driving a pair of SF Cremonas. The M6i sounded a little too smooth & warm for my tastes. The Nait sounded great - lively, engaging but the I32 had all that but with far more detail which seems to be trait of class D amplification. I found the sound & build of the Primare extremely good! I now have a Primare A34.2 class D power amp driven directly from an audiolab M-DAC. It builds on the strengths of the I32's power amp section. Very fast, pretty dynamic, great bass control & stunning detail & imaging. The Primare I32 would probably best suited to speakers that are not overly bright - it will reveal shortcomings in recordings but will reward well-recorded stuff. I find my stereo dfficult to stay still too!<<


Lee Harvey's review must be a work of fiction as the I32 is anything but bright. If anything some might find it a little to laid back. Same goes with just about everything Primare has made over the last five years.

We have been selling Primare long before most in Canada had even heard of it and I have yet to come across anything they make that I thought was bright or forwarding sounding. If I did, I probably would have stopped selling it as I personally won't have anything here that is overly bright, forward etc. I have lost count on the number of lines we have moved away from simply because of the "In your face" presentation they had.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:47 am 
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Audiois1st wrote:
After experiencing pure Class A tube power and really enjoying it I wasn't sure I wanted to go Class D. I also honestly had never heard of Primare before he suggested I try the I32. I told my dealer I was open to trying the Primare so maybe I can get it on loan for a while to try it.

'bubs' and 'jerry klinger' from https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/primare-i32-digital-amp?page=1 can not understand why Primare I32 only received 3 stars from 'What HiFi', as they are very impressed with the sound from Primare I32

'mr richards' from https://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=290188 says that Primare I32 deliver amazing bass and details in the music, and 'XavierJH' was also very impressed as well. Primare I32 received Editor's Choice Awards. I can only recommend you to give it a listen and let your ears be the judge.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:32 pm 
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scarbpaul12 wrote:
I can't see how you could go wrong.
Being able to use it at home, with your current speakers/system is the ultimate way to try it out.
Is there a reason you would have reservations?


+1. Nothing like doing a demo in your own home with your own gear. If you have this opportunity I can't see why the hesitation.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:09 am 
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Audiois1st wrote:
Hi CAM;

So the story goes that a dealer I've known for 15-20 years thinks that my amplification "is very nice but flat and cold sonically by design" and I should move toward "more audiophile, open, warm and spatial."

I'm bi-amping a pair of B&W 804 D2's using 2 Denon POA-2200's. He has told me that he using a Primare I32 Integrated on a new pair of 804's in the showroom and "sound phenomenal with this amp!"

Seems the dealer knows about Denon POA-2200 since he describe it as "flat and cold" sounding, and advice you to move toward "more audiophile, open, warm and spatial" sound. I can only guess the dealer refer the Primare I32 as "more audiophile, open, warm and spatial" sounding. I can't see there should be any problem for you to give it a listen. I would say just go for it.

Lars Thinggaard Thomsen from http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/primare-i32-integrated-amp/?page=2 says the great sounding amp Primare I32 kicks arse

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http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/primare-i32-integrated-amp/?page=2
Quote:
"Even in some of the most popular of pop releases, there are levels of texture and dimension that only need a good amp like the I32 to be heard. Just listen to “Going Home,” the first track from Leonard Cohen’s latest album Old Ideas, if you want to hear what I’m describing. Musical transients are snapped off smartly with the clean report of a starter’s pistol. And more generally, the bright, crisp edges that are heard from small percussion instruments like a tambourine, an orchestral triangle, or a set of bar chimes are resolved as purely as by any amp I’ve heard at or near this range. As I listened to versions of the Eagles second album Desperado (an original British Asylum LP and the terrific HDtracks 24-bit/192kHz download) I was hearing a wonderfully articulate musical conversation taking place between the banjo, Dobro, and bass guitar during “Twenty-One.” Cymbal crashes seemed lifted into the soundspace on a cushion and then decayed naturally, as opposed to sounding thickened and abruptly clipped off. The band’s trademark harmonies still remain admirable, but it’s the reproduction of the superb balance of voices that producer Glyn Johns attained during “Saturday Night” that makes using the I32 so rewarding. Its “insider” resolution is so good that harmonies can be followed as a single collective voice or as a chorus of discrete voices brimming with unique inflections and character. I customarily associate the retrieval of these low-level harmonies with classic Class AB designs, not Class D—a result that further supports my belief that, next to cone-driver box-loudspeaker technology, the components that have made the greatest leaps in sound quality are Class D amps." , by reviewer Neil Gader


Audiois1st wrote:
He has offered to lend me the Primare I32 Integrated but I have my reservations using a Class D amp.

There is no reason for you to have any reservations against Primare I32, especially considering that the dealer describe your Denon POA-2200 as "flat and cold" sounding, compared to Primare I32's "more audiophile, open, warm and spatial" sound...

The only reservations you should have against is older Class D amps like for exadmple Onkyo A-1VL, but thank goodness the Onkyo company did not sell this particular model in North America. The choise of signal sources for the Onkyo A-1VL class D amp is very important, as this Class D Onkyo amp is balancing sonically on the "sharp edge of the Samurai sword". Bright sounding signal sources hooked up to this Onkyo amp will rip your eardrums to pieces, and turn your teeth out through the neck. This is how it feels when the punishment promptly comes to meet you, because it will be hard, square and unbearable to listen to. This Onkyo class D amp places great demands on its signal source, and if you can find a good match, then you will be rewarded with a large and beautiful great sound from a very revealing Onkyo A-1VL amp. It can easily match a CD player costing twice as much. If you match this Class D Onkyo amp with the right signal source, then you will be rewarded thousand fold, like for example a tube based CD player. This amp 's sound is neutral tending to analytical. The sound is straight and direct, without detours. This Class D Onkyp amp delivers everything it gets in without mercy. The term "analytical" could be considered here. The bass is a little loose around the edges, and has plenty of punch, but without being too big. The midrange is right and raw, you hear what needs to be heard. Also voices sounds as they should, provided that the recording is right. Treble can sound a bit squeezed in between, but only a little bit squeezed. There is not so much "air" at this end of the treble spectrum. However, there are lots of details, from the deepest bass to the bright treble, and the perspective is large and spacious. Especially the width is impressive. But generally lacking any precision, placing the musical instruments incorrectly in the soundstage.
Because of the lack of precision, the mood on Tool's "Forty Six & 2" is not quite the same as for example Lyngdorf SDAI2175 deliver. This Class D Onkyo amp's sound is more clinical, and get nearly this Tool's "Forty Six & 2" track to remind you of a trip to the dentist instead of a trip to the bog.

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Last edited by ELOS on Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:38 am 
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https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/46114-anyone-heard-the-new-primare-i32-amp/
Quote:
'Boycie' says: >>I'm sitting here currently listening to a Primare I32 and I have to say that it's great. The Primare I32 beats the Naim XS in my system comfortably.<<


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Mmmm... class D... I have some reservations...
I own the I30 (with SHL5) and the A30.2.... with Spendor S9e...
Warm, detail... nice amps.... faster than MA6900....

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:50 am 
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https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/primare-i30-or-naim-nait-xs-or
Quote:
'chebby' says: >>I have heard both Primare I30 and Naim Nait XS amps (hundreds of hours listening in the case of the i30) and much prefer the Nait XS<<

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/57830-naim-naitxs-versus-primare-pre-power-combo/
Quote:
'Rich27' says: >>I recently borrowed a Primare I32 to compare vs the Naim Supernait I currently own. Suffice it to say I have now left Naim amps behind me and the never ending upgrade philosophy which frankly was beginning to p!ss me right off!<<


bellofelix wrote:
Mmmm... class D... I have some reservations...
I own the I30 (with SHL5) and the A30.2.... with Spendor S9e...
Warm, detail... nice amps.... faster than MA6900....

That the dealer describe the OP's Denon POA-2200 as "flat and cold" sounding, compared to Primare I32's "more audiophile, open, warm and spatial" sound, and Primare I32 that also beats the Naim Nait XS and Supernait comfortably just confirm how much the Class D technology has developed throughout the years. And keep in mind that Primare I32 is based on the latest UFPD technology compared to the "old fashion" Solid State construction the Denon POA-2200 and Naim Nait XS and Supernait amps are based on. Go figure...

BlackSandAudio wrote:
The Primare is a fantastic piece. Just do it as you won't be disappointed. I also wouldn't call it Class D per say. UFPD is something special.

Try it and you will get it.

+1 The OP definitely owe himself to give the Primare I32 a listen


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:23 am 
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Thanks for the replies.

I will borrow the Primare I32 Integrated when its offered by my dealer (it's in his showroom currently).

Now that I'm considering a Class D amplifier I've been looking at the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 integrated. This product interests me because it also offers room correction with RoomPerfect.

Would anyone have experience with the Lyngdorf integrated? How might it compare with the Primare?

Audiois1st

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