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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:34 pm 
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A used Linn integrated would also fill your bill nicely without breaking your wallet. They have a fantastic phone stage built in.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:50 pm 
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To answer an earlier question, I am running the turntable through the phono input on my Surround Sound receiver. The signal and dynamic range from the turntable seems to be significantly lower/smaller, hence my question as to whether a preamp would be the way to go.

Quadzilla wrote:
I believe in making smaller changes to be able to identify what makes the biggest difference. If I were the OP, I would try an entry-level phono preamp with his existing receiver before he changes everything. If he eventually decides to make bigger changes, the phono stage will integrate nicely with any future component change. While I don't share the OP's enthusiasm with NAD gear, I do think they make a decent entry-level phono preamp (although there are others he should also consider).


This is my inclination too: would rather pick up something incremental and add to the system than replace things wholesale. So if a phono preamp is called for, is it worthwhile being a new, dedicated phono preamp, or could I get the equivalent (and possibly additional features) by picking up a vintage preamp unit?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Are you listening to LPs in stereo mode through your A/V receiver, or with some sort of surround processing? If it sounds bad in stereo mode, I wonder if you might have a problem with the cartridge. The phono input in your receiver shouldn't be as bad as you describe. Keep in mind that turntables are usually not as loud as CD players. That is a very common thing.

If you buy a vintage preamp that needs a recap it might sound worse than you have now. If you are just buying it for the phono stage, then buy a modern stand-alone phono preamp. There are currently four phono preamps listed for sale on CAM for $100 (although that QED is not worth the asking price ... I sold mine for $40).

Rule out the turntable cartridge first though. Can you borrow a phono preamp to see if it fixes the problem?

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1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:55 pm 
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CaptMondo wrote:
To answer an earlier question, I am running the turntable through the phono input on my Surround Sound receiver. The signal and dynamic range from the turntable seems to be significantly lower/smaller, hence my question as to whether a preamp would be the way to go.


You need a better turntable and cartridge to hear analog performance that's comparable to good digital sources.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Because your new and there was no internet when I started. Funny hobby this. You spend a certain amount to get to the point you are reasonably happy then have to spend a lot of money to get very small degrees of better till you hit the point you have to completely change everything in your “Playback Chain” to get overall better or more likely “different”.

By now you likely have well over 5 to 10K invested and your still not happy or want better because some source material played back on your system (meaning a well recorded outstanding performance) impressed you immensely. My advice is to decide if you want to go digital or stick with vinyl. Then collect only knock your socks off recordings and slowly build up your system to the point where you either keep growing and spending money or stay at that point. The secret is to stay balanced meaning everything in your playback chain compliments each other so you are on the right track sticking with all NAD for now.

Only buy the highest regarded components/wire/cartridge/table/DAC, etc meaning best buy at THAT PRICE point. Example-at a certain point wire makes a difference and after paying for and installing a good wire its nuts to spend a lot more money on different wire unless you change out your entire “Playback Chain”. So you can see how this hobby goes. If you drink or smoke or go out or invest in other hobbies such as biking or boating or hunting or fishing those things take away time and money from assembling and listening to your system. Realize some of us took a lifetime to get where we are. Easily over 30, 40, 50 plus years.

NAD C162C with phono is a stereophile recommended pre that hits a home run.
NAD C272 amp synergistic with c162 and well regarded by stereophile.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/nad-c ... perb-value
Want better?=NAD C275BEE Stereo Poweramp or Anthem MCA 20 or Parasound-etc. (maybe)
Want better?= NAD C165BEE Preamplifier (maybe)
Use an outboard DAC later.
Use a workstation Computer for digital file storage and sound processing later.
Use an outboard Phono pre later when you upgrade the cartridge and arm and table and you may not want to because of $$.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:51 am 
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sasquatch wrote:
Your Nad AV713 will have a chip based phono RIAA amp inside.
Pretty hard to muck it up.
Gary

Your receiver has a phono input/preamp. Why aren't you trying & using it?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:38 am 
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starman100 wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Your Nad AV713 will have a chip based phono RIAA amp inside.
Pretty hard to muck it up.
Gary

Your receiver has a phono input/preamp. Why aren't you trying & using it?

I believe he is? And finds it lacking.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:43 am 
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NordicNorm wrote:
starman100 wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Your Nad AV713 will have a chip based phono RIAA amp inside.
Pretty hard to muck it up.
Gary

Your receiver has a phono input/preamp. Why aren't you trying & using it?

I believe he is? And finds it lacking.


Yes. Exactly right.

Based on the direct advice I have had to my original question, have arranged to buy a vintage NAD 1600 preamp and plan to feed the output from that into my receiver's phono in. Will report back when it has been installed/tested out.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:50 am 
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CaptMondo wrote:
Yes. Exactly right.

Based on the direct advice I have had to my original question, have arranged to buy a vintage NAD 1600 preamp and plan to feed the output from that into my receiver's phono in. Will report back when it has been installed/tested out.

Cheers!


Don't connect it to the phono input. Connect the preamp Tape Output to a Line level, CD or Auxilliary input. Bad things will happen if you connect it to the phono input. My prediction though, is that you will not get the results you are hoping for. I expect that the defect is with your turntable/cartridge ... or you are simply expecting too much out of an entry-level turntable.

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1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


Last edited by Quadzilla on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:55 am 
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Your NAD receiver's phono stage will work just fine on the turntable that you have. Just use the Direct mode option on the receiver when playing the turntable to keep the surround sound mode out of the way.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:58 am 
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tube54 wrote:
Your NAD receiver's phono stage will work just fine on the turntable that you have. Just use the Direct mode option on the receiver when playing the turntable to keep the surround sound mode out of the way.


I agree with you, but he came here with the belief that a particular NAD preamp would be the answer, and unfortunately someone backed that up for him. I don't see the point in trying to convince him otherwise now. He had his mind made up from the beginning.

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1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:19 am 
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Quadzilla wrote:
tube54 wrote:
Your NAD receiver's phono stage will work just fine on the turntable that you have. Just use the Direct mode option on the receiver when playing the turntable to keep the surround sound mode out of the way.


I agree with you, but he came here with the belief that a separate preamp would be the answer, and unfortunately someone backed that up. I don't see the point in trying to convince him otherwise now.


The separate phono stage is better of course but you have to keep your turntable and the ancillary equipment quality in mind when going in that direction. If you truly believe that you have the turntable and the equipment that can benefit from the separate phono stage better performance I'd say why not. Otherwise, what's the point of spending the money?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:24 am 
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tube54 wrote:
Quadzilla wrote:
tube54 wrote:
Your NAD receiver's phono stage will work just fine on the turntable that you have. Just use the Direct mode option on the receiver when playing the turntable to keep the surround sound mode out of the way.


I agree with you, but he came here with the belief that a separate preamp would be the answer, and unfortunately someone backed that up. I don't see the point in trying to convince him otherwise now.


The separate phono stage is better of course but you have to keep your turntable and the ancillary equipment quality in mind when going in that direction. If you truly believe that you have the turntable and the equipment that can benefit from the separate phono stage better performance I'd say why not. Otherwise, what's the point of spending the money?


Exactly, but it is obvious that he intended to buy a specific used NAD 1600 preamp when he first posted. He just wanted someone to validate his decision.

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1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:02 am 
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The separate phono stage is better of course but you have to keep your turntable and the ancillary equipment quality in mind when going in that direction. If you truly believe that you have the turntable and the equipment that can benefit from the separate phono stage better performance I'd say why not. Otherwise, what's the point of spending the money?[/quote]

Exactly, but it is obvious that he intended to buy a specific used NAD 1600 preamp when he first posted. He just wanted someone to validate his decision.[/quote]

Ok...I'll rest my case. I suppose he'll find it out soon enough if he decided to buy the unit if his money is well spent. Y'know what they said it's better to experience it off-hand rather than hear the experience from somebody else.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:18 pm 
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tube54 wrote:
The separate phono stage is better of course but you have to keep your turntable and the ancillary equipment quality in mind when going in that direction. If you truly believe that you have the turntable and the equipment that can benefit from the separate phono stage better performance I'd say why not. Otherwise, what's the point of spending the money?


Quote:
Exactly, but it is obvious that he intended to buy a specific used NAD 1600 preamp when he first posted. He just wanted someone to validate his decision.


Quote:
Ok...I'll rest my case. I suppose he'll find it out soon enough if he decided to buy the unit if his money is well spent. Y'know what they said it's better to experience it off-hand rather than hear the experience from somebody else.


Well, I was asking whether or not a dedicated phono pre-amp (vintage or new) would help, and it seemed like a few people answered "yes". Other people were off-topic and suggesting I a) get a new receiver/amplifer b) don't buy NAD gear, or c) get a better turntable/cartridge, even though I've never stated exactly what turntable I have.

I am willing to believe that (c) (heck, even (a) for that matter) may also be a valid point. For the record what I have is a Sony PS-LX22 (circa 1983) using a Grado XT+ cartridge. Should I upgrade the cartridge or spring for a better record player? If so, any recommendations? (Would prefer vintage over new if so).

Cheers!


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