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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:50 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Always thought the Cremonas did justice to choral.......could placement,room or amp. match be an issue?
Proac D38s & Response 2s do a good job of choral precision,delicacy,separation & venue ambience on good recordings.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:12 am 
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Posts: 217
Location: North Vancouver, BC, CA
Toad Hall wrote:
I have Coherent GR 12 speakers and a good variety of music including choral, classical , chanting etc. If you get over to V.I. and wanted to listen it would be no problem. I am not using the preferred tube amp but am using a solid state int. Not saying these would work for you but it can't hurt to listen.

I actually head to Victoria frequently and will be there soon. I'll pm you before I come. Much obliged.

-- 23 Sep 2017 18:15 --

supaDean wrote:
A few important things to consider.

1. Room acoustics. Many under estimate how their listening space affects sound. Implement some sound materials in the room. This can greatly enhance sound by correcting dips in frequencies etc.

2. Use of subwoofers / subwoofer crossover. Fill in the lower end by correct implementation of subwoofers. I recommend two small subs vs one large one. This works for every type of music. I was first surprised how often my subs would kick in with classical, but when one thinks about the dynamic range and orchestral movements in classical it no longer comes as a surprise.

3. Speaker placement. For example, sometimes toeing in a couple of inches can make a significant difference in sound quality in the "sweet" listening area.

4. EQ of left and rights mains. Aside from EQ of subs, EQ applied to main speakers can also make a difference. Another consideration is electronic room correction, such as ARC offered by Anthem.

5. Pre-amp / Amp. Can make a significant difference in sound.

Some of the above may be considered basic by experienced audio folk, but I've found it's easy to forget these items and focus on one area, such as the acquisition of new speakers, without investigating or taking the above into account. Good luck, and I hope this is helpful.

These are all good points and well taken. I've optimized everything I believe except woofer selection. I currently have a cheap what've dale on the right speaker only. I can certainly improve in this area. Maybe I should invest here instead of another pair of speakers

-- 23 Sep 2017 18:16 --

That should read wharfedale

-- 23 Sep 2017 18:17 --

dupont62 wrote:
Always thought the Cremonas did justice to choral.......could placement,room or amp. match be an issue?
Proac D38s & Response 2s do a good job of choral precision,delicacy,separation & venue ambience on good recordings.

They are fantastic but they don't image as well as the quads


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:12 pm
Posts: 617
Location: Waterdown, ON, CA
Nkj1 wrote:
Well there is nothing like Quads.

If you've been enamored by the Quad philosophy. No conventional speaker at $4-5K will come close. It depends on your sonic priorities. Many audiophiles have been conditioned to appreciate bloated bass or other anomalies and have difficulty with what Quads do well.

The leading edge and quickness of the Quad will make other speakers seem harsh and hifi the shape and separation of instruments on this speaker cannot be matched with lesser designs.

They will not produce much defined bass below 40hz but then most box speakers can't really do this appropriately either without a significant investment. Be prepared to live with them for a while to appreciate what is wrong with conventional hifi.

For conventional speakers to approach what Quads do well you will have to more than double or triple your budget.

For Quads as long as you have enough space behind the speakers 3' is minimum - side to sidewall does not affect them much. I have had the USA monitors and still keep the ESLs all have been rebuilt professionally. This is important- to have a properly working pair.

I have heard the 2905/12- the 2912 will give more bass energy not necessarily go lower. You need the room for them. The ESLs are theoretically much more compromised but wow - when they are done right with the correct amplification and nearfield you will be astounded with what they can do. As good as the purity of the mid-range of 63/2905 types is ( its better than most boxes).. the ESL an order of magnitude superior to that.

Good luck.


Very well said and next to impossible to better inside your budget.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:08 am
Posts: 953
Location: burlington, ON, CA
What type of music? Jazz, orchestra, electronic, rock, folk, country, piano concertos, what have you?
Do you listen near field or throughout the house?
Do you want every frequency your room can handle or do you want those 3D images and as many as possible?
Do you listen to as low in SPL as possible or are you used to upping the SPL until the room maxes out-and this is a lot lower in sound pressure level than many realize.

No speaker is good at everything and No one after a cerrtain level wants a DO-ALL speaker.

I recommend you fine tune your needs, wants and desires keeping the rest of your chain in mind.
Remember part of your chain is your hearing so I would also get a hearing test as they are free and buy to suit your hearing and what your room can handle. Meaning dont expect to get 20hz in your room and there is nothing wrong with huge very efficent speakers playing every frequency at whisper quiet to speaking quietly SPL.

For me its always been speakers first-then quality of source-then room/nearfield listening-then chain.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Location: North Vancouver, BC, CA
Choral music.
Distance is about 9'
For me detail, soundstage are critical. Deep bass is not but more than the 63s can provide

I'm beggining to sense that I won't get what I want without spending oodles of hard earned cash. So maybe I'll stick to the 63s and keep experimenting with my second system's speakers.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Location: St. John's, NL, CA
Chorale!! And you want that choir spaced out properly across your stage. You want to hear who's in the front, who's in the middle rows, and who's in the rear. You want to be able to tell if the choir is on risers or not. You want tonal accuracy, nay you need it; don't want to mix up a soprano with a castrato now, do we. These needs have lower powered SET amps and high efficiency speakers written all over them. :P


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Location: Leduc, AB, CA
I've always found the crossover points annoyingly obtrusive on all but the very newest Sonus Faber models. I've never heard Harbeth speakers but don't know if they are available around here. They don't appear to be a candidate for my taste from what I've read. I do, however, own Quad 57's and 63's. Both pairs need servicing and that is very far away and expensive, but may be remedied if and when I move to the west coast.

When the 63's discharged through the same panel for the second time, I got a pair of Magneplanar MC1's because I could hang them on the wall and effectively lengthen the sound room. I also purchased a REL T-2 subwoofer because the MC1's drop off sharply below 70 Hz, as designed. I was hoping that the new combination would be close to the Quad's sound, but found I actually liked it better. I never really integrated the REL perfectly, but it was great for years. Last Christmas I treated myself to a pair of Magnepan 1.7i's after hearing them at my dealer's during a sale. They sounded 3 times better at home and the only real question left is deciding whether or not to go for 3.7i's, or, 20.7i's, with the ribbon tweeter, at some later date. The 57's will get repaired and used for string quartets, as they are unbelievable used thusly.

Quads can be augmented with a sub, but my preference would be to place them on a platform of solid MDF that brought the centre of the tweeter to ear level. The bass loading can be amazing, and at the same time, completely clean - way better than a sub. On the other hand, the Maggies will handle way more power and are exceedingly easy to drive. They are less expensive and much more robust than Quad's, so, most likely will never have to be repaired when used sensibly. The choice of amp is unlimited with Maggies and they work very well with both SS and tubes. Magnepan also have an outboard bass panel to augment the response of their main models; you can use one or two of these units and only need extra speaker cables. The transition is completely seamless between units.

I like choral music myself, especially Bach's cantatas. On his Magnificat, I can "see" each section of singers and hear every word they sing very clearly. The soundstage is superb! Personally, I think the Maggies can do it all - and most reviewers constantly accuse them of being the best value among speakers, by far. Make sure they are added to your audition list. Cheers!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:59 am
Posts: 1774
Location: Caledonia, ON, CA
Keep your excellent speakers and upgrade your pre-amp and possibly your amp. I recently upgraded my pre amp and was shocked at the improvement in bass extension and body/bloom.
I know of a couple different people who stack a pair of quads on each side. Adding a second one on top of each channel really added a new dimension to the sound, so to speak.


Last edited by newmusic on Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Location: Quebec, QC, CA
I sold my quad 57 and bought magnepan 1.7

with your budget, I'd look to the 3.7


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Posts: 334
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Acoustats sound similar to Quads except for more body and better bass. Spectra 22 or 33 or 2+2 or Model 3 can be found for far less than your budget if you are patient. The interfaces are easily serviced by a competent tech, panels are very robust (unlike Quads). Great speakers for choral or jazz, only lacking somewhat in punch for rock music.
Get the sound you are looking for and save thousands.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Location: Edmonton, AB, CA
I went with King Sound Prince II electrostat's, after being introduced to boxes speaker design I had the chance to demo the Kingsounds, best sound heard in my acoustical treated room to date. Lots of bass and alot of instruments sound more realistic than I have heard in other speakers.
Used them with numerous amps and no problem easy to drive. Overall very happy with huge soundfield no sweet spot listening


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Location: North Vancouver, BC, CA
I think I'm going to just keep plugging through speakers. Poor me! Just bought a second hand pair of magnepan 1.6qr to get a feel for the magnepan sound.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:15 pm 
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renehuot70 wrote:
I sold my quad 57 and bought magnepan 1.7

with your budget, I'd look to the 3.7

How sensitive to room placement are the 1.7's?.

Edit: never mind, looked at the measurements, won't fit. :(

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Last edited by KJT1 on Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Location: Stratford, ON, CA
Hi,

malthus wrote: 'I think I'm going to just keep plugging through speakers. Poor me! Just bought a second hand pair of magnepan 1.6qr to get a feel for the magnepan sound.'

And ..... so how do they compare?

Cheers,
David Neice

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Location: North Vancouver, BC, CA
I'm picking them up tomorrow....I'll let you know.

Thanks for the tips guys, it's given me some more things to add to the old "saved searches". :D


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