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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:38 pm 
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AudioDuck wrote:
I cannot count how many times a new small box has come on the market to be wowed at and demo'd in every store to mimic the youtube videos. They sound awesome "for a small box" and people buy them chasing the dream. Of course, at home, in a living room listening to music they cannot possible outperform a nice full floorstander. Its impossible due to simple physics. They still will sound "awesome for their size". In a bedroom or small home studio I can imagine them being great as near field.

There is only only "smallish" speaker that has every blown my mind. Dynaudio C1. Even then the reason I (regretfully) sold was the lack of low end. All else was perfect and to be honest selling was a mistake. Of course they are also far more money that the LS50.

Remember 5 years ago how many Focal 906 were for sale? Same hype, same scenario. Great book shelf but certainly not the first choice for someone with a nice sized room looking for full range sound.


KEF 201/2 or Reference 1, with a VERY high current amp - can deliver the goods along with the Dyn C1. In a medium size room...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:33 am 
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runnin wrote:
AudioDuck wrote:
I cannot count how many times a new small box has come on the market to be wowed at and demo'd in every store to mimic the youtube videos. They sound awesome "for a small box" and people buy them chasing the dream. Of course, at home, in a living room listening to music they cannot possible outperform a nice full floorstander. Its impossible due to simple physics. They still will sound "awesome for their size". In a bedroom or small home studio I can imagine them being great as near field.

There is only only "smallish" speaker that has every blown my mind. Dynaudio C1. Even then the reason I (regretfully) sold was the lack of low end. All else was perfect and to be honest selling was a mistake. Of course they are also far more money that the LS50.

Remember 5 years ago how many Focal 906 were for sale? Same hype, same scenario. Great book shelf but certainly not the first choice for someone with a nice sized room looking for full range sound.


Any fad eventually ends I guess. I noticed this 2 or 3 weeks ago, something like 6 pairs of the LS50 for sale. In this internet age, people take advice from complete strangers and plunk down their money to only realize down the road that the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow has moved!

The LS50 is inefficient at 85 db. Has a low max power rating, only 100 watts. Bass frequency response: 79 Hz (-3 db). Pretty oddball styling, either you like it or you hate it. All this for $1500? Any number of Tannoy bookshelf speakers are better.

Exactly! The first time I heard them my friend and I looked at each other and wondered what the hype was about.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:13 am 
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Two likely reasons for the many resale listings: 15 on CAM and another 5 on USAM.

They are a small size offering that has many MANY contenders and pretenders at their Pricepoint strata that match, rather, handily best them in overall sonic performance. .... they never impressed me.

The WHAT HI-FI mag review highlighted their inherent pluses AND also emphasized a BIG "con" .... they are very sensitive to partnering with the "right" electronics.

(A) I'll bet 99% of the buyers were just impulse buyers with a risky addictive herd mentality to buy the new offering based on the favourable mag reviews without considering what were they actually partnered with in those favourable mag reviews.

(B) And their failure to actually properly audition them with partnering them with their own electronics predicated a predictable path to disappointment and a boot to the CAM sales listings.


Last edited by Gunner on Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:36 am 
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We all believe in magic. That's because at one point in time, we were in front of a sound system, and all of a sudden we started really listening, involved beyond all hope of turning back. It was so wonderful that we have never stopped wanting to recapture the experience. And we think that if we only find the right components, magic will happen.

So we buy stuff that other folks say is great, in the hope of magic, and unfortunately the love affair doesn't always work out. You just can't hurry love, can you ?

And this is why the title of the topic thread, with one small change, can be found in multiples on every audio site, going back ten years or even more.

The change, of course, being the name of the component.

There's nothing magic about the phenomenon, except hope.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:46 am 
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Richard Austen wrote:
1) People have higher (and possibly unrealistic) expectations of them given their hype in the audio press. - I reviewed them and bought them as well.

2) They sell a bucket of them so you will see more of them on the second hand market. If speaker maker A sells 5000 of a model and you see 50 on the used market it may seem like a lot compared to speaker maker B where you only see 10 on the used market - but if speaker maker B only sold 100 of their model then this can lead to skewed representation.

3) This is a difficult loudspeaker to drive - it is low sensitivity, difficult impedance load and requires amplifiers to have impressive power supplies. The price of the speakers are fairly low which means a lot of audiophiles or newbies may be sticking the speakers onto grossly wimpy receivers or entry level integrated amplifiers that simply can't power them properly. Low Sensitivity isn't exactly great for the out of the box experience. In general - I much prefer HE speakers and certain panels and certain OB. You can get the KEF to sound quite excellent but IMO and IME it requires a lot of work and a front end that I am betting most people don't have and won't spend the money on.

4) They don't follow instructions and put them in a room that is far too big for the design - this is a near-field speaker that must be used in a SMALL room. A bedroom sized small room or smallish apartment living room - not a living room in a 3000 square foot house.

5) The Speaker's bass for a standmount is actually really good and will easily hit 45hz if you keep the size of room small, near-field and your amp has a power supply.

6) The KEF uses a metal tweeter and if this speaker is underpowered (or perhaps you use vinyl as your main source) the KEF possesses that metallic sound - I find it much better in the KEF than most but it IS there and some will, over time, be put off by it.

I reviewed the KEF and compared it to LS-3/5a and another pair of speakers designed by Andy Whittle of Rogers LS-3/5a fame. http://dagogo.com/kef-ls-50-bookshelf-speaker-review



And that about sums it up :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:26 am 
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I have a pair in my office driven by a pair on Nuprime mono amps.... which are surprisingly powerful little buggers.... a few things : they sound much better after prolonged break in , they need effortless power or they seem a bit flat, they tend to sound better on the volume setting just over where you want it but not pushed to the limit.... and tweak your position, can't enforce that suggestion enough

Personally I'm very happy with them in my office with my rig they sound very good


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:53 am 
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Gunner wrote:
Two likely reasons for the many resale listings: 15 on CAM and another 5 on USAM.

They are a small size offering that has many MANY contenders and pretenders at their Pricepoint strata that match, rather, handily best them in overall sonic performance. .... they never impressed me.

The WHAT HI-FI mag review highlighted their inherent pluses AND also emphasized a BIG "con" .... they are very sensitive to partnering with the "right" electronics.

(A) I'll bet 99% of the buyers were just impulse buyers with a risky addictive herd mentality to buy the new offering based on the favourable mag reviews without considering what were they actually partnered with in those favourable mag reviews.

(B) And their failure to actually properly audition them with partnering them with their own electronics predicated a predictable path to disappointment and a boot to the CAM sales listings.


And that's the problem with a fad speaker. Many unknowledgeable people get taken for $1500 because they have no idea what the specs are telling them. These are small room speakers that can't do bass.

The official Kef spec for the lowest frequency response(-3 db) is 79. It's just simple math, a speaker that has a -3 db of 60 will do MUCH better in the lower register than one with a spec of 79. Most modern stand mount speakers can do better than 79. Tannoy makes a stand mount with a 4 inch driver that beats this Kef number. Now that I think of it, Pioneer's little 4 inch driver speaker, the SP-BS22 beats that number handily. Yep, I know it won't sound as good, but still.

Then there is the quality electronics need. Many of these fad followers are also following the all-amps-sound-the-same fad, and pair the Kef's with a 3-400 receiver. Just now I counted 13 pairs of LS50 for sale. The used price on these can only go down.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:13 am 
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It's because tons were sold. As a proportion it's probably no higher on the used market than anything else.

-- 21 Jul 2017 15:16 --

runnin wrote:
Gunner wrote:
And that's the problem with a fad speaker. Many unknowledgeable people get taken for $1500 because they have no idea what the specs are telling them. These are small room speakers that can't do bass.


This is patently false. You will not find a speaker of this size box that has more powerful or punchy bass, period while still maintaining decent mids and highs. While far from accurate, this is the reason that the vast majority of people buy LS50s, because they sound like a floor stander in a bookshelf box.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:18 am 
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It's because tons were sold, and tons were disappointed. Paradigm sold tons of the Performance Series Atoms and Titans, but people weren't looking to dump them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:33 am 
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planetofsound wrote:
This is patently false. You will not find a speaker of this size box that has more powerful or punchy bass, period while still maintaining decent mids and highs. While far from accurate, this is the reason that the vast majority of people buy LS50s, because they sound like a floor stander in a bookshelf box.

So in the entire world of audio the LS50 is the speaker with most powerful and punchy bass for the size?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:27 am 
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James_W wrote:
planetofsound wrote:
This is patently false. You will not find a speaker of this size box that has more powerful or punchy bass, period while still maintaining decent mids and highs. While far from accurate, this is the reason that the vast majority of people buy LS50s, because they sound like a floor stander in a bookshelf box.

So in the entire world of audio the LS50 is the speaker with most powerful and punchy bass for the size?

Me thinks I'd put my Model One Sigs up against them without fear of embarrassment. Mind you, they did cost more new.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:45 pm 
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planetofsound wrote:
It's because tons were sold. As a proportion it's probably no higher on the used market than anything else.

-- 21 Jul 2017 15:16 --

runnin wrote:
Gunner wrote:
And that's the problem with a fad speaker. Many unknowledgeable people get taken for $1500 because they have no idea what the specs are telling them. These are small room speakers that can't do bass.


This is patently false. You will not find a speaker of this size box that has more powerful or punchy bass, period while still maintaining decent mids and highs. While far from accurate, this is the reason that the vast majority of people buy LS50s, because they sound like a floor stander in a bookshelf box.


I just don't get this. Kef's own numbers on the LS50 state the lower -3db point is 79 db. There is no way that a speaker with that spec has punchy bass at 55 or even 65 Hz. Again, the Pioneer SP-BS22 has better measured numbers(Stereophile or Sound and Vision) than that.

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Last edited by runnin on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:27 pm 
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I've never heard the LS50's..............but, would LOVE to, with a pair of small, tight subs, in a 2.2 configuration.

Cheers, del Sol


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Because the wooden enclosure (and cheaper model) it is based on, is better.

pj


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:37 pm 
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I have had and heard a lot of bookshelves, the ls50 which I own have undoubtly the most bass ive ever heard from a 5.25 inch in my house.
but I mean, compared to proper woofers or even 8 inchers, a 5.25 bass will always strugle


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