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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Location: Bromont, QC, CA
Hi Guys,

I would like to know If some of you have a top notch technicien to recommend me In the Montréal area? I have a pair of B&W 802 Matrix series 3 that I would like to rebuild~Upgrade the crossover.

Thanks

Marc


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:55 am 
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Those are pretty good speakers unless crossovers are damaged I would leave them.
I've run b&w for years btw.
B&W makes very good durable x overs.
I think theres complete finished kits you can buy from North Creek.
That being said if you don't have the apoc circuit to electronically disconnect drivers f protection I'd keep what you have.






Thank you for the response tyreman. I did contact George Short from Northcreek. But they closed shop some years ago.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:13 am 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Martin OMJM wrote:
Those are pretty good speakers unless crossovers are damaged I would leave them.
I've run b&w for years btw.
B&W makes very good durable x overs.
I think theres complete finished kits you can buy from North Creek.
That being said if you don't have the apoc circuit to electronically disconnect drivers f protection I'd keep what you have.






Thank you for the response tyreman. I did contact George Short from Northcreek. But they closed shop some years ago.


I have owned the B&W 801 S3 for years now and been wondering aloud whether to upgrade the X-over or not and as the matter of fact a friend who's very well versed in upgrading x-overs came and listen to it to be certain about it. After a few hours of the listening session, he came to the conclusion that upgrading the x-over might give it a different sound but not the better sound performance that I'm looking for. He said that that the way it sounds now is very neutral and natural and he doesn't think it will get any better than that. Anyway, to make my story short I left it alone.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:31 pm 
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tube54 wrote:
Martin OMJM wrote:
Those are pretty good speakers unless crossovers are damaged I would leave them.
I've run b&w for years btw.
B&W makes very good durable x overs.
I think theres complete finished kits you can buy from North Creek.
That being said if you don't have the apoc circuit to electronically disconnect drivers f protection I'd keep what you have.






Thank you for the response tyreman. I did contact George Short from Northcreek. But they closed shop some years ago.


I have owned the B&W 801 S3 for years now and been wondering aloud whether to upgrade the X-over or not and as the matter of fact a friend who's very well versed in upgrading x-overs came and listen to it to be certain about it. After a few hours of the listening session, he came to the conclusion that upgrading the x-over might give it a different sound but not the better sound performance that I'm looking for. He said that that the way it sounds now is very neutral and natural and he doesn't think it will get any better than that. Anyway, to make my story short I left it alone.



Refreshing the electrolytic capacitors with more modern versions is probably a good idea, and maybe just a tiny bit of poly non magnetic cap bypass on the larger electrolytics.

Makes a difference, almost always positive. Meaning: I've never encountered a bad outcome from doing this... but reserve the right to think it might somehow happen, sometime, somewhere.

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(Ken Hotte, of) Teo Audio


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Teo Audio wrote:
tube54 wrote:
Martin OMJM wrote:
Those are pretty good speakers unless crossovers are damaged I would leave them.
I've run b&w for years btw.
B&W makes very good durable x overs.
I think theres complete finished kits you can buy from North Creek.
That being said if you don't have the apoc circuit to electronically disconnect drivers f protection I'd keep what you have.






Thank you for the response tyreman. I did contact George Short from Northcreek. But they closed shop some years ago.


I have owned the B&W 801 S3 for years now and been wondering aloud whether to upgrade the X-over or not and as the matter of fact a friend who's very well versed in upgrading x-overs came and listen to it to be certain about it. After a few hours of the listening session, he came to the conclusion that upgrading the x-over might give it a different sound but not the better sound performance that I'm looking for. He said that that the way it sounds now is very neutral and natural and he doesn't think it will get any better than that. Anyway, to make my story short I left it alone.



Refreshing the electrolytic capacitors with more modern versions is probably a good idea, and maybe just a tiny bit of poly non magnetic cap bypass on the larger electrolytics.

Makes a difference, almost always positive. Meaning: I've never encountered a bad outcome from doing this... but reserve the right to think it might somehow happen, sometime, somewhere.


We were thinking about spending an upward of $3,000 to upgrade the X-over using Mundorf and Solen caps, but he digresses afterward. Knowing that at the end of the day it may sound different but is it enough of a difference to justify the cost. BTW, my B&W 801 S3 x-over's caps are still in excellent condition.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Location: Edmonton, AB, CA
$3,000 to upgrade the crossovers?? Are you buying big Dueland caps?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:10 pm 
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msommers wrote:
$3,000 to upgrade the crossovers?? Are you buying big Dueland caps?


Yup! that was our plan along with Mundorf and Solen caps as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Location: burlington, ON, CA
I would ask B&W in England for their advice and input. My B&W crossovers are designed by B&W for the right balance to create the sound wave emiting from the baffle from each driver to end up correctly and as designed at X watts at X SPL measured X metre(s) out over the correct X degrees verticle and correct X degrees horizontal to create the decay, the imaging, the frequencies and ultimately what happens inside your head.

Changing one thing will probably change everything. Maybe better, maybe worse, likely different than what the box was designed to do.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:32 pm 
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when a crossover is designed with electrolytics, it is not a good idea to replace the electrolytics with film, as the dynamic response to impedance will be different and it will essentially shift the crossover points and response.

So you will get a notably cleaner sound quality but the crossover will not sound right and will have to be re-done from the ground up.

A literal re-design.

It may even be impossible to get the mid and mid bass drivers to respond correctly to film caps and mate up correctly with the tweeter, for example.

you can get new electrolytics, with slightly better distortion characteristics and slightly lower impedances, slightly better hf response, a hair better current passing capacity, yes, and maybe a small, very small amount of film bypass (which causes it's own headaches unless carefully done)..but beyond that...replacing all electrolytics in a given 'high count electrolytics' type crossover, which many B&W crossovers are (lots of electrolytics)..replacing them with film caps...is a disaster in the making. A very expensive disaster.

Kef, B&W, Paradigm, Energy, Mirage, etc, all are involved in this scenario. All generally have a high count of electrolytics in their crossovers. All the older units, anyway...

If one want so do so, one should carefully do it, one part per channel(pair), at a time. The simpler the crossover, the cheaper the speaker... the less it matters.... and the high end units -the three way and four way units- have very complex crossovers with lots of electrolytics. It is in the most high end units that the most damage can be done by moving too fast and too far.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Martin OMJM wrote:
I would like to know If some of you have a top notch technician to recommend me In the Montréal area? I have a pair of B&W 802 Matrix series 3 that I would like to rebuild~Upgrade the crossover.


Upgrading crossover components is a question that comes up all the time on CAM.
Actually, there needs to be a reference section for it.

The starting point on any crossover upgrade is to get a schematic.

The schematic for your Matrix 802 s3 can be found here
http://bwgroupsupport.com/manuals/bw-service


Also, you must have seen this crossover upgrade by Troels Gravesen.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/B&W-802s3_Upgrade.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:27 am 
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Location: Cambridge, ON, CA
S3's should be fine as they are :D


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:18 am 
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Location: Cornwall, ON, CA
Unless there is a definite problem with them you won't hear very much difference. I've done it before on b&w and other speakers and it just wasn't worth the effort, if you aren't satified with the sound just change the speakers.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:54 am 
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Location: Bromont, QC, CA
Thank you all for your quick and helpful response. I will change the electrolytic capacitors for a start and see where it leads me..

Special thanks to Ken H. From Teo Audio



Peace, one love!..


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