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 Post subject: Problem with a Sold Item
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:19 pm
Posts: 172
Location: Kitchener, ON, CA
All,

I received negative feedback today from a fellow Cam member. My first ever in 8 years!

I sold a Pro-ject Tube Box S pre-amplifier on Cam a couple of weeks back to a Cam member by the name of Robert (first name only). I sold this in good faith knowing there was no issues with the amplifier. He bought it sight un-seen, or heard. He paid for it EMT and arranged for his son to pick it up. No problem until the e-mails below. See the 2 e-mails below.

Here was Robert e-mail to me after he purchased the pre-amp:

I finally got out to KW to pick this up Brian

No box. No manual? It's okay I guess, the manual is readily available on line. Too bad about the box though. I don't know why I always expect such things to be there in a sale unless specified. Just that's the way I do things I suppose.
Bigger concern is, I don't think there's much left in these tubes. There's barely a glimmer in fact.
Looks like I'll be out the cost of replacement and for that I could almost have bought new.

Thanks all the same though.
Best regards.
Robert.


To me this sounded more like buyers remorse, not a problem with the pre-amp. I sold this item in to Robert in good faith knowing full well that it did NOT have any issues and it sounded great in my system. I did not respond to Robert's e-mail because it sounded like he was trying to pick a fight.

This was Robert's e-mail from 2:15 today, approximately 1 hour and 15 minutes ago:

Thanks Brian.
I am the less than proud owner of a $350 paper weight.
I figured the noise was from tubes, so new ones were bought and installed. The Left channel was sill humming away with those. Then that tube blew. Figuring it to be faulty I was given a replacement by Long & McQuade where I bought them.
Nope. The left channel in this otherwise great little phono stage is damaged. Can I assume you were aware of this? Can't see how you wouldn't have been.
Any response would be appreciated.




I am not sure what to do. I have been on Cam for over 8 years, bought and sold lots of items and I have never had a negative feedback.

I have just responded back to Robert with the following:

Robert,

Very sorry to hear this Robert! I sold this amplifier to you in good faith and did not have any issues with it the entire time I had it.

The amplifier may still be under manufactures warranty, being it is only 1 + years old. I’ll see if I can find the receipt.

Thanks


Should I take the pre-amp back? It worked fine and I had no issues when I had it. What if he did something to it E.G. dropped it, put in the incorrect tubes


Thanks

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Milton, ON, CA
He needs to do more troubleshooting and share the results. Does a different phonostage work fine in that spot? If his cartridge clips are touching one another it could cause that.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:46 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Markham, ON, CA
So you are on the horns of a moral dilemma. Legally he bought it, chose not to audition it, so he owns it.
The only thing that could be done would be to ask him to have a knowledgeable tech have a look at it and give you both a report. Based on that, you can decide what to do.

Guaranteed this guy is a "glass half-full" sort of guy.....and you are not going to satisfy him. I have two Tube-boxes btw....one is a DS and I went and checked both tubes....one is significantly dimmer than the other. And it plays great!!

The fact that the guy did not contact you about the "bad channel" BEFORE he changed tubes makes me think he messed up on the tube exchange. Otherwise why would he not have complained that the unit was misfunctioning BEFORE he changed the tubes.....this would be consistent with his first message when he identified that one tube was weaker that the other and " this might cost me as much as buying a new one" or words to that effect.

Finally he bought the unit weeks ago? You are NOT at fault here. At. All.

Contact the admins and plead your case.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
I just checked out your complainant's feedback. From the number of completed sales on CAM (80) it appears he is a flipper. Hence his desire for the box, etc. Which, if you did not specify in your ad, how could he expect them? He also previously complained about another purchase....of a set of 15-year old speakers he paid $80 for...and the complaint? The cabs had small scratches. On a pair of $80 speakers.

For me the issue is that, if he really had a problem when he first plugged it in, then a complaint might be more legit than after he started modifying the unit. Once you make changes, all bets are off.

Robert, if you read this, you might want to reconsider your feedback.....an outsider reading Brian's response on your profile will wonder if they would want the potential aggravation of dealing with you. And with that many positive feedbacks, is it really worth the "flame war" with Brian?

Sometimes things go wrong. I bought a really nice tonearm (unmounted so I could not audition it) from a really nice, honest guy. When I finally installed it, one of the Cardas tonearm wires was kinked and broken. I did not even bother the seller with this; I am confident he sold it to me in good faith, and who can tell WHEN the broken wire could have happened...sometimes you need to move on and attract positive energy in your life!

Please let us know how this fares. I, for one, have made a note on my "don't buy" list. And that name is not yours, Brian. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Location: saskatoon, SK, CA
hmmm...the glimmer test. I'd like to try this on a few of my tubes.

Maybe this method could be explained?

frick....


oh and is 80 the magic number to be classified as a "flipper"?!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Location: London, ON, CA
It is true that he sold 80 items, but he has purchased 117, so I don't think that he qualifies as a flipper. If 80% of his feedback was for sales, that 'might' qualify him.

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1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


Last edited by Quadzilla on Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
BinkyTheCat wrote:
hmmm...the glimmer test. I'd like to try this on a few of my tubes.

Maybe this method could be explained?

frick....


oh and is 80 the magic number to be classified as a "flipper"?!


Ha!! You are right, Blinky. Maybe he flips, maybe not... :) :( I only WISH I had enough money to buy that much gear :P

If we used the "glimmer test" in my house, the wife woulda thrown me out LONG ago!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Location: London, ON, CA
brownslane wrote:
BinkyTheCat wrote:
hmmm...the glimmer test. I'd like to try this on a few of my tubes.

Maybe this method could be explained?

frick....


oh and is 80 the magic number to be classified as a "flipper"?!


Ha!! You are right, Blinky. Maybe he flips, maybe not... :) :( I only WISH I had enough money to buy that much gear :P

If we used the "glimmer test" in my house, the wife woulda thrown me out LONG ago!! :lol:


He has also been a member for more than ten years, so that works out to about 8 sales a year. That doesn't seem like a lot to me.

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1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Location: winnipeg, MB, CA
You shipped it fully functional, and it is possible something could have happened in shipping. If I was 100% positive of the functioning of an item before I shipped it, there is no way I would take it back or offer a refund; it is a used item and things happen. The chances that it dies the exact moment you ship it are very rare, but it happens.
It won't help you now, but for future sales think about making a quick video of it in action before you ship or package. Simple enough to do with a phone these days, and you have something solid to show the buyer.

best of luck.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Location: London, ON, CA
The buyer has modified the item by replacing the tubes, did they use the correct tubes?

If I was to purchase a used tube item, I would inquire the age, and hours on the tubes.

As for the box and manual, these should have been discussed by both parties, not assumed.

If the buyer picked up the item (not his son), he may have asked these questions, or more.

Regards
Ohms

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Location: Burlington, ON, CA
"barely a glimmer". From what, a 12ax7? Too much... :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:40 pm 
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Location: Thornhill, ON, CA
Perhaps the 12AX7 tubes don't illuminate much.

But shoehorning a KT150 in its place? LOL

Seriously this guy is SOL for so many reasons. Main one of course that he already swapped tubes before notifying you. He should have done due diligence, it would have vindicated the seller as it turns out.

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Last edited by racecars on Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Crazy story, you should have the negative feedback removed asap.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Location: Victoria, BC, CA
Sadly, it will turn out a lose/lose. You will undoubtedly leave negative feedback for him too, given the circumstances. Leaving a red is risky business, as it will likely come back from the other party, justified or not.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:57 am
Posts: 217
Location: North Vancouver, BC, CA
Complaining about tubes is crazy. These are consumables. When I buy a used tube amp I'm automatically assuming the tubes are compromised if the ad doesn't expressly say they have very low hours.

I feel fo you Brian, sometimes it's just a flip of a coin who you deal with and how that sale goes. Photos, photos, video, detailed descriptions, and using the CAM rating faithfully are your safeties.


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