Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
It is currently Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:55 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:52 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Waverley, NS, CA
I have a cp65 now which sounds wonderful.
It has a silver and black face plate.
I prefer the all black of the previous model,, the cp60.

Any one know if there are noticeable differences in s/q or function between the two.
The cp65 was $1500 more than the 60 back in the day.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=classe+c ... P0unf9pbbM:

https://classeaudio.com/cp-65/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:52 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Waverley, NS, CA
ttt for the evening viewers...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 155
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
allgonoshow wrote:
I have a cp65 now which sounds wonderful.
It has a silver and black face plate.
I prefer the all black of the previous model,, the cp60.

Any one know if there are noticeable differences in s/q or function between the two.
The cp65 was $1500 more than the 60 back in the day.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=classe+c ... P0unf9pbbM:

https://classeaudio.com/cp-65/


Great question: I was a Classe dealer (2000-2005); Classe amps CA-201/301/401 were very, very nice -particularly the last 1-2 years of production.

It was in our experience the CP-60 , after burn-in/break-in became "slow" lacking dynamics and vitality -a rolled-off type sound.
The CP-47.5, on the other hand, was likely the best sounding back then. It's a shame Classe cheaped-out on the CP-30?/47.5 with non chassis-mount connectors -often failing (coming apart) with extended use. Absolutely ridiculous for a $2K device. They shoold be ashamed at such cost-cutting measures. I'm certain buyer's would be accepting of a $2,500. pre (as opposed to $2K) understanding the superiority of chassis-mount connectors.
Een so, Classe sent us the Omega Preamp to evaluate -after a week or so of doing everything we could to make this thing sing -was to no avail. I called and questioned its operating status (i.e. any issues previously,or if their willing to examine/test -they declined) We happily sent it back whence it came.
It was, I kid you not, one of the worst preamp's I ever heard !
(The title -of worst ever- goes to the one-off Audio Performer (single-tube) pre from the late 1980's -it seemed to play in mono such was its channel separation. It also made every recording sound identical -in mono no less. I gave it the more apt name of Audio DESTROYER. lol.)

Classe made some superb product -I'm currently using their superb CA-2100 (circa 2005-2011). The remainder of the line then included the CA-2200, and CA-M400 mono's -all impressive.

It's a shame Classe fails to listen to its customers; year-after-year the line is so inconsistent I find it impossible to recommend.
I suggested to the new owner (B&W Group) he may wish to re-vamp management and return Classe to the top of its game. That was last year/or two ago.

Back to your question, I believe the CP-65 was quite an improvement over the CP-60.
In any case, with either model, impressive build-quality was clearly evident.

I wish I had more positive experience with the CP-60 (and CP-50), but that was not the case, no matter how much I wished and tried to make them sing. My sentiments were shared by many others as well.
Go figure.

pj


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:52 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Waverley, NS, CA
allhifi wrote:
allgonoshow wrote:
I have a cp65 now which sounds wonderful.
It has a silver and black face plate.
I prefer the all black of the previous model,, the cp60.

Any one know if there are noticeable differences in s/q or function between the two.
The cp65 was $1500 more than the 60 back in the day.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=classe+c ... P0unf9pbbM:

https://classeaudio.com/cp-65/


Great question: I was a Classe dealer (2000-2005); Classe amps CA-201/301/401 were very, very nice -particularly the last 1-2 years of production.

It was in our experience the CP-60 , after burn-in/break-in became "slow" lacking dynamics and vitality -a rolled-off type sound.
The CP-47.5, on the other hand, was likely the best sounding back then. It's a shame Classe cheaped-out on the CP-30?/47.5 with non chassis-mount connectors -often failing (coming apart) with extended use. Absolutely ridiculous for a $2K device. They shoold be ashamed at such cost-cutting measures. I'm certain buyer's would be accepting of a $2,500. pre (as opposed to $2K) understanding the superiority of chassis-mount connectors.
Een so, Classe sent us the Omega Preamp to evaluate -after a week or so of doing everything we could to make this thing sing -was to no avail. I called and questioned its operating status (i.e. any issues previously,or if their willing to examine/test -they declined) We happily sent it back whence it came.
It was, I kid you not, one of the worst preamp's I ever heard !
(The title -of worst ever- goes to the one-off Audio Performer (single-tube) pre from the late 1980's -it seemed to play in mono such was its channel separation. It also made every recording sound identical -in mono no less. I gave it the more apt name of Audio DESTROYER. lol.)

Classe made some superb product -I'm currently using their superb CA-2100 (circa 2005-2011). The remainder of the line then included the CA-2200, and CA-M400 mono's -all impressive.

It's a shame Classe fails to listen to its customers; year-after-year the line is so inconsistent I find it impossible to recommend.
I suggested to the new owner (B&W Group) he may wish to re-vamp management and return Classe to the top of its game. That was last year/or two ago.

Back to your question, I believe the CP-65 was quite an improvement over the CP-60.
In any case, with either model, impressive build-quality was clearly evident.

I wish I had more positive experience with the CP-60 (and CP-50), but that was not the case, no matter how much I wished and tried to make them sing. My sentiments were shared by many others as well.
Go figure.

pj



Thanx for the info.
My cp65 is currently paired with a ca150 and it is a great combination.
I think I will leave things as they are rather than change for the sake of appearances.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 155
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
allgonoshow wrote:
allhifi wrote:
allgonoshow wrote:
I have a cp65 now which sounds wonderful.
It has a silver and black face plate.
I prefer the all black of the previous model,, the cp60.

Any one know if there are noticeable differences in s/q or function between the two.
The cp65 was $1500 more than the 60 back in the day.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=classe+c ... P0unf9pbbM:

https://classeaudio.com/cp-65/


Great question: I was a Classe dealer (2000-2005); Classe amps CA-201/301/401 were very, very nice -particularly the last 1-2 years of production.

It was in our experience the CP-60 , after burn-in/break-in became "slow" lacking dynamics and vitality -a rolled-off type sound.
The CP-47.5, on the other hand, was likely the best sounding back then. It's a shame Classe cheaped-out on the CP-30?/47.5 with non chassis-mount connectors -often failing (coming apart) with extended use. Absolutely ridiculous for a $2K device. They shoold be ashamed at such cost-cutting measures. I'm certain buyer's would be accepting of a $2,500. pre (as opposed to $2K) understanding the superiority of chassis-mount connectors.
Een so, Classe sent us the Omega Preamp to evaluate -after a week or so of doing everything we could to make this thing sing -was to no avail. I called and questioned its operating status (i.e. any issues previously,or if their willing to examine/test -they declined) We happily sent it back whence it came.
It was, I kid you not, one of the worst preamp's I ever heard !
(The title -of worst ever- goes to the one-off Audio Performer (single-tube) pre from the late 1980's -it seemed to play in mono such was its channel separation. It also made every recording sound identical -in mono no less. I gave it the more apt name of Audio DESTROYER. lol.)

Classe made some superb product -I'm currently using their superb CA-2100 (circa 2005-2011). The remainder of the line then included the CA-2200, and CA-M400 mono's -all impressive.

It's a shame Classe fails to listen to its customers; year-after-year the line is so inconsistent I find it impossible to recommend.
I suggested to the new owner (B&W Group) he may wish to re-vamp management and return Classe to the top of its game. That was last year/or two ago.

Back to your question, I believe the CP-65 was quite an improvement over the CP-60.
In any case, with either model, impressive build-quality was clearly evident.

I wish I had more positive experience with the CP-60 (and CP-50), but that was not the case, no matter how much I wished and tried to make them sing. My sentiments were shared by many others as well.
Go figure.

pj



Thanx for the info.
My cp65 is currently paired with a ca150 and it is a great combination.
I think I will leave things as they are rather than change for the sake of appearances.


For sure keep the CP-65: W cable (interconnect) are you currently using ?

Also, If you reside in a city/town (i.e. shared 120-V AC power with neighbors/neighborhood) I strongly recommend a 120-V Balanced/Symmetrical Power Supply (800-1,500-watt rating/800 Va/1.5Kva ).

It appears only Equi=tech currently manufacture's BALANCED/Symmetrical units; Torus/Bryston are NON-SYMMETRICAL (i.e. Balanced) Isolation transformer units -120-V is referenced to ground, as opposed to 'balanced' +/- 60 V-to-ground as is the feature of Symmetrical designs.

If you can locate one, Blue Circle made some excellent units: MR-800/1200 (and higher capacity, circa 2000-2005), other brands were also made back ten.
(Changes to the Electrical Code, circa 2005, was introduced in NA concerning Balanced/Symmetrical AC power). Coincidently, many company's ceased manufacture of these units, the reasons remain unclear to me.)

In any case, it is unanimously agreed that equipment powered this way excels in clarity, definition, dynamics low-frequency resolution, and lower noise-floor. It really is a major improvement -compared to straight wall power.

Used examples (good luck finding one) anywhere from $300.and up. A GREAT investment. You honestly do not know what your equipment sounds until like fed by a clean, low-impedance AC power supply -such as Bal. Pw.r, and/or AC-Regen. for source components.

Back to the CP-65; a great IC cable would be the Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II, new or used.

I'm guessing the Shunyata Venom-3 AC power cord (regular) would work very well with CP-65.

Let me know what your currently using for IC -and where the gear is plugged into; direct wall, power bar, etc.

peter


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:52 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Waverley, NS, CA
I currently use Audioquest balanced interconnects between the pre and amp, as well as my
cd/dac, SimAudio 260d.

I don't have a power conditioner or upgraded power cords, although those are on the list.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 425
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
What opamp's are Classe using on those balanced inputs? Both amp and preamp.
Might be a more modern chip available that just drops in.
Quick and easy upgrade.

Gary


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 155
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
sasquatch wrote:
What opamp's are Classe using on those balanced inputs? Both amp and preamp.
Might be a more modern chip available that just drops in.
Quick and easy upgrade.

Gary


It's a fully-differential circuit, Gary.

Are you referring to the 'op-amp' (on balanced input) as part of the pseudo/quasi "Balanced" tricks (of employing diff. amp and phase splitter -in/out- ) designed to accept XLR, without processing the signal as a true diff./balanced signal ?

In any case, and either way, what's with the "drop-in" op-am chip rec.?

pj

-- 26 Sep 2017 16:16 --

allgonoshow wrote:
I currently use Audioquest balanced interconnects between the pre and amp, as well as my
cd/dac, SimAudio 260d.

I don't have a power conditioner or upgraded power cords, although those are on the list.


allgonoshow: What model of AQ ?

The CP-65 deserves a premium IC; if an Acoustic Zen Silver Ref II (or equiv.) is not available/practical -consider Wireworld's really good Solstice "7" Interconnect (approx.$70./1-M, $80./2M, etc.)

Don't concern yourself with power cords at this time, well, after-market ones anyway; PC's are VERY component dependent. It's just as possible (in fact more in my experience) that a PC will be a "mis-match" , rather than a obvious improvement.

pj


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 155
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
allgonoshow wrote:
ttt for the evening viewers...


allgonoshow: The more I think about the CP-65, the more I'm certain the Shunyata Venom-3 power cord would be a nice match; improving 'speed', clarity and definition (including the often neglected low-frequency definition/resolution) to the proceedings.

I have one (Shunyata Venom 3 -I wish to keep), but you can find used ones for about $100. If nothing else, I assure you that this PC will make a 'believer' to anyone who doubts its significance/contribution to SQ.

pj


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 425
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
allhifi wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
What opamp's are Classe using on those balanced inputs? Both amp and preamp.
Might be a more modern chip available that just drops in.
Quick and easy upgrade.

Gary


It's a fully-differential circuit, Gary.

Are you referring to the 'op-amp' (on balanced input) as part of the pseudo/quasi "Balanced" tricks (of employing diff. amp and phase splitter -in/out- ) designed to accept XLR, without processing the signal as a true diff./balanced signal ?

In any case, and either way, what's with the "drop-in" op-am chip rec.?

pj

-- 26 Sep 2017 16:16 --

allgonoshow wrote:
I currently use Audioquest balanced interconnects between the pre and amp, as well as my
cd/dac, SimAudio 260d.

I don't have a power conditioner or upgraded power cords, although those are on the list.


allgonoshow: What model of AQ ?

The CP-65 deserves a premium IC; if an Acoustic Zen Silver Ref II (or equiv.) is not available/practical -consider Wireworld's really good Solstice "7" Interconnect (approx.$70./1-M, $80./2M, etc.)

Don't concern yourself with power cords at this time, well, after-market ones anyway; PC's are VERY component dependent. It's just as possible (in fact more in my experience) that a PC will be a "mis-match" , rather than a obvious improvement.

pj


So whats the opamp.OPA2134?

Gary


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 155
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
Gary: Who knows. Who cares. What's your point ?

pj


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 425
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
allhifi wrote:
Gary: Who knows. Who cares. What's your point ?

pj


OP might.
Would make a bigger difference than any IC power cord swap.

Gary


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 155
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
sasquatch wrote:
allhifi wrote:
Gary: Who knows. Who cares. What's your point ?

pj


OP might.
Would make a bigger difference than any IC power cord swap.

Gary


" ...Would make a bigger difference than any IC power cord swap."
(That sums up your knowledge/expertise on power-supply design)

OK Gary -too funny ! (P.S> How did you achieve such worldly knowledge/understanding/expertise ?)

No doubt from your countless and counted DIY experiments.

pj


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 425
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
Nailed it.

Peace

Gary


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Classe CP60 vs CP65
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 155
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
sasquatch wrote:
Nailed it.

Peace

Gary


Peace.

pj


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Splityew and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group