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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:12 am
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Location: the ssauga, ON, CA
A previous technician made a mess of this beautiful sansui tube integrateds wiring.
What technician in Ontario can and is willing to bring it back to original wiring design and specs and at what cost?
"All of the shielded wiring inside is defective old cable with a deteriorating paper wrap around the live conductor. Most of these cables are internally shorted between shield and live. The reason a proper ground was not made to the phone jacks. Work inside is not original. Shielded hookup is a mess. Somebody made a mess inside.
Even with new shielded cables the amplifier is not likely to achieve the performance you want in a living room.
There are A lot of old components in the signal path."

Thanks for your help.


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Last edited by FRAUDBUSTER on Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Location: saskatoon, SK, CA
Am I missing something?

Appears pretty much recapped.
If the original wires are shot replace em.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:57 pm 
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BinkyTheCat wrote:
Am I missing something?

Appears pretty much recapped.
If the original wires are shot replace em.


Is Crumbling shielded wiring easy to fix?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON, CA
Sansui's are almost always worth repairing.

Hint: Sansui made their own transformers. (Part of why their Solid State units of the 70's and 80's were so good)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:34 am 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
You just change one wire at a time. No biggie. But how can you say the previous tech messed it up? What did they do?

To your question "how much is it going to cost?"...the answer is "how long is a piece of string?"

Nobody can give you a firm cost. Until you get into the thing, there is no way of knowing what issues you might find. If the whole thing needs to be re-wired, you are looking at hundreds.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:49 am 
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FRAUDBUSTER wrote:
BinkyTheCat wrote:
Am I missing something?

Appears pretty much recapped.
If the original wires are shot replace em.


Is Crumbling shielded wiring easy to fix?



It is not the most technically complex thing in the world, but it requires a notable mount of time, and making the right wiring choices. It is something for a learned technician. A tech who's worked on tube gear of similar vintage and has handled such wiring jobs before. As they will have the skill set and lore to do it right, the first time.

From a full and proper perspective, yes, it is costly.

A smart person who has soldered electronics before might get in there and do a decent job themselves. Part of it is choosing the right wire for the job and dressing it properly.

field intensities in tube gear and high voltages are not the same in their handling, as it is with solid state gear. Each line has to be treated as if is something akin to a MM or MC signal handling line, that will encounter high voltage and high field intensities and interactives, in how it is terminated and routed, and most importantly, which wire is chosen. To add, high temperatures will be encountered. Part of why the cabling has crumbled. It's not just aging alone.

so yes, one can do a good job by accident and using brain power, but a learned tech with the lore at hand will be consistently better across many jobs.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:20 am 
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Location: North Bay, On
its not a p2020, its a PM-2020; https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details ... ntegrated/

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php? ... on.806771/

https://sansui1944.websitetoolbox.com/p ... nfo-907421


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:34 am 
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Yeh, pic kinda gave it away.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:44 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
FRAUDBUSTER wrote:
BinkyTheCat wrote:
Am I missing something?

Appears pretty much recapped.
If the original wires are shot replace em.


Is Crumbling shielded wiring easy to fix?

A close up pic of the crumbling shielded wire would be helpful too :idea:
What's the crumbling part?

Any pics of the original shielded wiring used on these Sansui's?

How does it sound now?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:56 am 
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Location: Windsor, ON, CA
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Image

Rarest Sansui PM-2020 Tube Integrated Photo.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details ... ntegrated/

"Needs service"... "The last owner told me there was a problem with the pre section due to deterioration of wires"...
"Sold as is"...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:35 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
Takira71A wrote:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Image

Rarest Sansui PM-2020 Tube Integrated Photo.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details ... ntegrated/

"Needs service"... "The last owner told me there was a problem with the pre section due to deterioration of wires"...
"Sold as is"...

CAM seller ad states
".......
EL84 based circuit, original box.

Needs service. Previously recapped with audio grade caps, but never turned on since I aquired it.
The last owner told me there was a problem with the pre section due to deterioration of wires.

I never got around to fixing it.
....."

I recommend a local tech inspect this closely before getting too excited.
Fairly simple tube point-to-point construction.
Workmanship of the recap looks reasonable from these pics. Not clear if the shielded wiring has been replaced?
Step by step work through this unit won't take too much time or effort.

The statement "was a problem with the pre section due to deterioration of wires" is more likely just typical oxidized switch contacts and RCA connectors that need cleaning.

A really cool looking Sansui 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Location: the ssauga, ON, CA
jst_canuck wrote:
Takira71A wrote:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Image

Rarest Sansui PM-2020 Tube Integrated Photo.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details ... ntegrated/

"Needs service"... "The last owner told me there was a problem with the pre section due to deterioration of wires"...
"Sold as is"...

CAM seller ad states
".......
EL84 based circuit, original box.

Needs service. Previously recapped with audio grade caps, but never turned on since I aquired it.
The last owner told me there was a problem with the pre section due to deterioration of wires.

I never got around to fixing it.
....."

I recommend a local tech inspect this closely before getting too excited.
Fairly simple tube point-to-point construction.
Workmanship of the recap looks reasonable from these pics. Not clear if the shielded wiring has been replaced?
Step by step work through this unit won't take too much time or effort.

The statement "was a problem with the pre section due to deterioration of wires" is more likely just typical oxidized switch contacts and RCA connectors that need cleaning.

A really cool looking Sansui 8)


Yes its very cool looking amp and quite heavy..a tech has looked at it and he told me its too much work that may not be worth it.

A fb tech who was working on one told me he had to give it back to owner because all the 40 year old wiring was deteriorating and it would cost over a 1gnote usd to repair.

-- 01 Jul 2018 07:04 --

Takira71A wrote:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Image

Rarest Sansui PM-2020 Tube Integrated Photo.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details ... ntegrated/

"Needs service"... "The last owner told me there was a problem with the pre section due to deterioration of wires"...
"Sold as is"...


I inherited the same amp from the guy who bought it from canuck. Didnt realize it until after i bought it


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
nice rats nest amplifier...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
The PM2020 is a great amp.
I had another PM2020 prior that was fully operational - it had real killer tone.

This PM2020 I also acquired with the intention to repair, but - like many things, it did not seem like I was going to get around to it. The amp sat in it's box for quite some time.

Here is what I know about that specific amp:

I got it from a Cammer that was out on the East Coast, I know prior to him owning it the amp had likely exchanged a few hands as when I research it I found some pics and a video of it working on you tube. I was told that there was a problem in the preamplifier section wires as some were deteriorating and where actually shorting or touching each other.

If our member (the OP) show us a pic from the top, you can probably make out that the wires that connect to the preamplificiation controls have some crumbling rubber (the sheathing) of the wires. As result, there are bare sections of wires touching others. To me, it looked (otherwise) not too bad under the amp. Aside from perhaps one cap that should be properly resoldered and have heat shrink applied to it, it looked like most of the work was already done.

It's probably valuable to note that the PM2020 that I had prior (the operational one) also had some wire degradation; however, most of the bad wires were prior replaced. The amp is from the early 50's, I am personally not surprised with age and heat that wires have degraded.

At the time that I posted this amp mentioned by the op for sale, I also had a Fisher - It really became a "whatever sells first" scenario - I believe the OP came to buy the Fisher and also took the Sansui from me. The Fisher was a real cherry, I sold it much too cheap for it's condition and would buy it back in a second if the opportunity presented itself!

Question, did you buy this amp from me - or are you just citing a previous listing of mine? I sold the amp fully disclosing the problem as per the posting.

Anyhow, whether you bought it from me or not - if you still have done nothing with it in a few months - drop me a line.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:53 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
Pic from Worthpoint site of the bottom of the identical Sansui after re-capping.

Looks like the same grey (original) shielded wire as the OP shows?

Does the OP want a prefect museum quality restoration or will he/she accept use of updated modern materials and components :?:

If the latter, the task is to replace wiring.

What is your real end goal for this :D


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