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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Teo Audio wrote:
We find that the real 'sell' points are where they have always been, with a bit added in for inflation as the clock ticks... all normal.


I do not agree with this at all.

I am very careful about what I buy and my "low end" items have increased 100-200% over ten years.
My high end items have increased probably 50%.

What is worse, is the nice items are disappearing. They have either gone to local collectors or the far east.

As someone who also buys guitars, the rule is buy it now because it will not be getting any cheaper *if you know what you are buying".
Crap will always be crap and some items will always reduce in value as their unicorn magic wears out.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:33 am
Posts: 1929
Location: Kingston, ON, CA
mdl_tor wrote:
Teo Audio wrote:
We find that the real 'sell' points are where they have always been, with a bit added in for inflation as the clock ticks... all normal.


I do not agree with this at all.

I am very careful about what I buy and my "low end" items have increased 100-200% over ten years.
My high end items have increased probably 50%.

What is worse, is the nice items are disappearing. They have either gone to local collectors or the far east.

As someone who also buys guitars, the rule is buy it now because it will not be getting any cheaper *if you know what you are buying".
Crap will always be crap and some items will always reduce in value as their unicorn magic wears out.



Perhaps I did not state it (my meaning) clearly enough, my bad.

that the crazy numbers in the premium or hard to find 'desirable' items was not sustainable and not real. That the numbers, the real ones, are as collector markets have always been, and yes, that the lower end vintage stuff is where the big increases are happening. Hifishark shows that trend clearly, via a series of searches on any number of vintage premium or vintage 'midline' items.

It's a people thing, one might say. People want the vintage gear, they are sequentially (tick tick in the trending) as a group, coming into the market, and buy what they can afford. In this case or market, it is mid-line stuff that has not had the increases that the 'exceptional' items would have already experienced.

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(Ken Hotte, of) Teo Audio


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:06 pm
Posts: 389
Location: Whitby, ON, CA
Sasklite wrote:
Lots of clucking about the vintage prices....

How about the the 'ridiculousness' of the lowely 4' power cord...
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649397966-audience-au24-sx-hp-power-cord-4-feet/

Still only $800/foot....

Mint, only used once....but 40% off the orignal $1300.00/foot retail.
A $100 an INCH.

Makes the vintage prices look pretty fantastic.


it's funny how many people laugh or scoff at pricing on vintage gear but never blink an eye at paying stupid prices for copper wire


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 14
Location: Kingston, ON, CA
Back to the OP's original point...

Yes, I agree some people do ask too much for restored gear, and that drags up the price for "lessor" units. It is a free market though, the bubble will eventually burst when nobody wants to pay the big bucks anymore.

What gets me more is how much people are willing to pay for unrestored units. Sure, you can buy a 2230 "serviced" for $300 but what then? I works fine for a little while then starts acting up. You take it to a shop and they repair only the fault and get it working again for say $200. Maybe in the future something else goes wrong unrelated to the original failure. Back to the shop it goes. All the while you've never heard what the amp was supposed to sound like because there was a couple of dried out caps in the pre-amp nobody considered because it was "working fine and sounding good".

Our beloved pieces have gotten old. There is a wealth of knowledge out there as to which components are becoming troublesome. 2SA725-726-798, 2SC458-313, fuse resistors, VD1212 diodes, corrosive glue, etc,etc,etc... You just never can tell if one of these will bite you and render your beloved music maker useless.

It's a very rare thing when I bought a "working" unit that actually fully worked. Just about every piece I've bought needed attention, that's how I learned to work on them.

For example, I recently purchased a Sansui 990 from a audio shop. I was told it was fully functioning, it just needed a few bulbs. Controls were cleaned and he changed a couple of caps in the pre-amp. I get it home and no FM, dirty controls. I checked the bias, it's low on both channels and won't adjust, two fuse resistors opened up. The protection light didn't go green, a simple carbon resistor. Long story short, it wasn't fully functioning but I didn't care. I was the perfect buyer for that piece. It's been on my bucket list for a while and I'm very happy to have it. It wasn't a score but a fair price for a mostly working unit. I got exactly what I expected. It's "working great" now but I'll likely go through it this winter and replace every trouble maker I can find and enjoy it for years to come. If in the future something fails, I'll know what it's probably not.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:07 am
Posts: 287
Location: Repentigny, QC, CA
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/ ... -restored/

OUCH!
not cluckin', just sayin'


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 1:25 pm
Posts: 358
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Well, if you want to have a real laugh, have a look at the ad for the Pioneer SX-1980 that was just listed. This joker wants $6500.00.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:45 pm
Posts: 20842
Location: Panache Bay
Sgt Pepper wrote:
Well, if you want to have a real laugh, have a look at the ad for the Pioneer SX-1980 that was just listed. This joker wants $6500.00.


...word...und Merry XMAS :D

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It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. James A Baldwin


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 9730
Location: Burlington, ON, CA
^ you may be talking about the link he previously posted...
there's also a seller in Fla asking $4500 usd for one....

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"There's no place like Space...."


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Calgary, AB, CA
if anyone believe that Pioneer is the best and worth half of the $6500 then he should get his ears check.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 1:25 pm
Posts: 358
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
For $6500.00, you can buy a good set of equipment. Naim, Quad,Linn, Bryston, Classe, etc etc. Of course, his argument will be that it is 'collectable'. Well, if he really thinks anyone would pay over $2000.00 for a 'collectable' item with the Pioneer name on it, I would say he has been into his Christmas LSD stash a little early.This is the kind of ad that gives CAM a bad rap.

-- 23 Dec 2017 02:59 --

Stone wrote:
Sgt Pepper wrote:
Well, if you want to have a real laugh, have a look at the ad for the Pioneer SX-1980 that was just listed. This joker wants $6500.00.


...word...und Merry XMAS :D


Right back at you.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 1245
Location: hawkesbury, ON, CA
Sgt Pepper wrote:
For $6500.00, you can buy a good set of equipment. Naim, Quad,Linn, Bryston, Classe, etc etc. Of course, his argument will be that it is 'collectable'. Well, if he really thinks anyone would pay over $2000.00 for a 'collectable' item with the Pioneer name on it, I would say he has been into his Christmas LSD stash a little early.This is the kind of ad that gives CAM a bad rap.

-- 23 Dec 2017 02:59 --

Stone wrote:
Sgt Pepper wrote:
Well, if you want to have a real laugh, have a look at the ad for the Pioneer SX-1980 that was just listed. This joker wants $6500.00.


...word...und Merry XMAS :D


Right back at you.

oups don t forget that TAD is a pioneer . some of them I would pay more than $2000


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:30 pm
Posts: 429
Location: Regina, SK, CA
"This is the kind of ad that gives CAM a bad rap."

I disagree--- it looks bad on the seller. but...um.... who cares...
We've seen this argument before that somehow the weird ad's give CAM a bad name.
The past response still applies... has been that Newspapers don't get a bad rap for all objectionably priced objects be it a car, house, toy, etc.

Dedicated web for Audio vs geneneral advertising aside, if you saw the Pioneer SX1280 for $6500 in the local paper....you turn the page.
same thing should apply here... you don't like it, turn the page....

And to all, A good night...cap. er nightcap.... no. a good RE-CAP.
:wink:

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Vintage has a place.....mostly in my basement.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:02 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sleepy Hollow, NS, CA
Even though the price for the SX-1980 seems high at first glance, if one looks at the details, a tremendous amount of restoration work has been done on it which should make it more reliable in the long run.

I bought a SX-939 which was extensively restored and it was more expensive than a non restored one, but was worth it from a reliability standpoint. It is a beautiful receiver, sounds lovely and performs like new.

The SX-1980 is a 270 watt/channel receiver and not very common so even if not restored it would be expensive. If someone wanted this as a keeper rather than something that may need servicing at any moment, it may be worth it to them. Plus it will sound better and perform as new.

This is different than someone buying something at a yard sale, squirting some contact cleaner into a volume pot, giving something a light dusting and selling it for a high price.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:37 pm
Posts: 2653
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Sriskie wrote:
Back to the OP's original point...

Yes, I agree some people do ask too much for restored gear, and that drags up the price for "lessor" units. It is a free market though, the bubble will eventually burst when nobody wants to pay the big bucks anymore.

What gets me more is how much people are willing to pay for unrestored units. Sure, you can buy a 2230 "serviced" for $300 but what then? I works fine for a little while then starts acting up. You take it to a shop and they repair only the fault and get it working again for say $200. Maybe in the future something else goes wrong unrelated to the original failure. Back to the shop it goes. All the while you've never heard what the amp was supposed to sound like because there was a couple of dried out caps in the pre-amp nobody considered because it was "working fine and sounding good".

Our beloved pieces have gotten old. There is a wealth of knowledge out there as to which components are becoming troublesome. 2SA725-726-798, 2SC458-313, fuse resistors, VD1212 diodes, corrosive glue, etc,etc,etc... You just never can tell if one of these will bite you and render your beloved music maker useless.

It's a very rare thing when I bought a "working" unit that actually fully worked. Just about every piece I've bought needed attention, that's how I learned to work on them.

For example, I recently purchased a Sansui 990 from a audio shop. I was told it was fully functioning, it just needed a few bulbs. Controls were cleaned and he changed a couple of caps in the pre-amp. I get it home and no FM, dirty controls. I checked the bias, it's low on both channels and won't adjust, two fuse resistors opened up. The protection light didn't go green, a simple carbon resistor. Long story short, it wasn't fully functioning but I didn't care. I was the perfect buyer for that piece. It's been on my bucket list for a while and I'm very happy to have it. It wasn't a score but a fair price for a mostly working unit. I got exactly what I expected. It's "working great" now but I'll likely go through it this winter and replace every trouble maker I can find and enjoy it for years to come. If in the future something fails, I'll know what it's probably not.


I have a number of over 40 year old components- HK A402. HK 930 receiver, Hafler DH200 amp, Bryston3B NPB amplifier-all the components are original, no repairs or mods and they work and sound great. Would that A402 sound better if I replace those original ELNA caps? Not likely given the condition of them. I keep the switches and pots clean. I have replaced caps but that is rare.


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 Post subject: Re: Has it come to this?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 1245
Location: hawkesbury, ON, CA
alicia wrote:
Even though the price for the SX-1980 seems high at first glance, if one looks at the details, a tremendous amount of restoration work has been done on it which should make it more reliable in the long run.

I bought a SX-939 which was extensively restored and it was more expensive than a non restored one, but was worth it from a reliability standpoint. It is a beautiful receiver, sounds lovely and performs like new.

The SX-1980 is a 270 watt/channel receiver and not very common so even if not restored it would be expensive. If someone wanted this as a keeper rather than something that may need servicing at any moment, it may be worth it to them. Plus it will sound better and perform as new.

This is different than someone buying something at a yard sale, squirting some contact cleaner into a volume pot, giving something a light dusting and selling it for a high price.

we all understand , it as been restored extensively, but it is still $4000 too much. there is a reason why there is not many of those out there. because new at there price point,most would have bought seperates .because there is ,not many out there, doesn t automaticly make it a collectors item. and again at $6800 today, I would still go for separates, and easely would buy something that will outperform that pioneer. that s the point. you can take hundreds of hours polishing all the parts, and do all kind of so called upgrade, at the end it is still a sx1980.

-- 23 Dec 2017 14:00 --

how many people out there want to buy a extensively restored, fully polish, better then new Ford pinto? for just 4 time worth the original selling price?


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