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 Post subject: My room measurements
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
I just bought a umik-1 and download REW.

My room is L shape. There's an open stair to access the room and two doors in the room.

I made some tests with doors open or close, changing seating position, and stack some couch cushions around my aquarium and at the corner next to my seating place.

There's comfortboards on side walls and ceiling at first reflexion points. And 2 boards behind the speakers. I plan to move them and add bass traps.

First picture :
Blue Line no modification
Red Line : with modifications
Attachment:
File comment: First picture
Meas 2.jpg
Meas 2.jpg [ 56.66 KiB | Viewed 2035 times ]


Second picture
Red line : both speakers
Green line : right speaker
Purple line : left speaker
Attachment:
File comment: Second picture
Meas h-p.jpg
Meas h-p.jpg [ 61.5 KiB | Viewed 2035 times ]


Third picture : T60
Green= topt
Black = T20
Purple = T30
Light blue = EDT
Attachment:
File comment: Third picture
RT60.jpg
RT60.jpg [ 46.39 KiB | Viewed 2035 times ]


Any suggestions? I see that the left speaker suffers from is room placement, maybe I can move it but for now the image is dead center.


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
Today I moved my speakers! I managed to smooth the reponse.

Still no bass trap. I covered the TV with a bed cover. The 2 doors are now open.

My speakers are now closer together, and as far as I was able to put them on the rear wall. I toed them at the sitting place to get a dead center image.

The soundstage improved, I'm really satisfied.

1/6 smoothing
Red = old measure
Yellow = New measure, sitting correctly
Blue = New measure but slumped on the couch (which happen a lot late at night)
Attachment:
Meilleur 19 july 1-6 smooth.jpg
Meilleur 19 july 1-6 smooth.jpg [ 56.15 KiB | Viewed 1972 times ]


No smoothing
Attachment:
Meilleur 19 july no smooth.jpg
Meilleur 19 july no smooth.jpg [ 83.45 KiB | Viewed 1972 times ]


RT 60
Attachment:
Meilleur RT 60.jpg
Meilleur RT 60.jpg [ 58.65 KiB | Viewed 1972 times ]


I'm sure I can get things a little bit better by adding one corner bass trap in the corner next to my sitting place. I did some tests with an old matress and filled with cushions from floor to ceilling and it was better. I found that the aquarium is causing a part of the 60-70hz dip. There's certainly something more I can do there.


Last edited by patate91 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:07 am
Posts: 649
Location: London, ON, CA
Fascinating, thanks for sharing. I'd be concerned about the 60 and 200 Hz suck outs. These could be room modes, though, try measuring either closer or farther from the speakers to see how much this may change, or if they are artifacts of your room. Otherwise, your response if not too bad.

Test the output of your speakers with white noise. You may wish to boost your left speaker a few dB; I would if the chart is indeed correct.

Make sure that your bass traps don't further drop the 200 Hz dip.


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
Thats a good idea, I'll measure both speakers output. But I can only adjust the compression driver, and both are almost st max. But at least I'll make sure both are equal.

When sitting correctly the dips are now better. I reinforced the lows with the walls. I tested a lot of configurations : on corners, asymetrical, etc. This is the best results I achieved without spending money or adding something :)

I almost sure a proper bass trap will help.


Last edited by patate91 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:07 am
Posts: 649
Location: London, ON, CA
OK then reduce the right channel ... or just use the LR balance on your preamp if it has one.


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
L-Man wrote:
OK then reduce the right channel ... or just use the LR balance on your preamp if it has one.


No preamp here and no balance on my amplifier. I need to find passive ways to correct the response, if possible.

Pioneer A-09
http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-A-09.html

I have another amplifier with balance maybe I can do some tests with it.


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
I worked hard to tweak everything : now the dorrs are closed, no more feet rest, some acoustic panels are now out, nothing covers the aquarium, etc. Speakers are now at ear level, about 5''1/2 higher. My speakers are pretty big and heavy, I had to build proper speakers stands.

I still can smooth some frequencies but I'll lose to much in RT60 et EDT. I think I just found a good balance : it sounds good, it image good, the soundstage is good, there's plenty of bass, a lot of details.

Again no money were spent and there's no subwoofer in the room.

Purple = old
Blue = new

1/3 smoothing
Attachment:
23 juillet 1-3.jpg
23 juillet 1-3.jpg [ 51.21 KiB | Viewed 1841 times ]



1/6 smoothing

There's not a lot of frequencies that goes higher or below 3 db. Below 6 db appears at 16.1khz. I cant smooth between 250 to 350hz, but I lose a lot of decay time.
Attachment:
23 juillet 1-6.jpg
23 juillet 1-6.jpg [ 54.87 KiB | Viewed 1858 times ]


Psychoacoustic smoothing

Attachment:
23 juillet psycho.jpg
23 juillet psycho.jpg [ 52.35 KiB | Viewed 1858 times ]


RT60 data

Green = Topt
Purple = T30
Black = T20
Blue - EDT

Attachment:
23 juillet RT 60.jpg
23 juillet RT 60.jpg [ 46.65 KiB | Viewed 1858 times ]


Waterfall

Attachment:
23 juillet waterfall.jpg
23 juillet waterfall.jpg [ 84.15 KiB | Viewed 1858 times ]


In order to keep the balance I will have to find a corner bass trap that reflex highs. Any suggestions on DIY solution?

Any advices are welcome, I'm new to room measurement, there's a lot a thing I still don't understand.


Last edited by patate91 on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:07 am
Posts: 649
Location: London, ON, CA
What kind of speakers? Flat to 22Hz? Your setup measures incredibly. I bet it sounds wonderful. The treble drops above 5k though. How is treble detail and "air" (subjectively)?


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
L-Man wrote:
What kind of speakers? Flat to 22Hz? Your setup measures incredibly. I bet it sounds wonderful.



I did a clone of tad/Pioneer 2402

http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLU ... 402-e.html

I did this enclosure

http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Encl ... /E170.html

And someone did those horns for me. They are not as perfect as a CNC project but it add something to know that they are handmade.

http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn/A290/A290.html

I did a post about my build here or on audiokarma.

As for sound it sounds wonderful to my ears, I can't imagine a reason to change them.

-- 23 Jul 2017 18:58 --

I also measure down to 10hz it drops a lot.

I thought that I would have a break on measurements but it now that you are talking about bass I'll have to see what I can get bellow 22hz :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
Sorry I just saw that I made a mistake with the 1/3 smoothing picture, it appears that it was 1/1 smoothing. I loaded the proper file, not that smooth hahaha but it goes up

-- 23 Jul 2017 19:24 --

The microphone is not setup but I did all my measures at 15hz

Here's a close up with no smoothing

86db at 15 hz - 97,5 at 60hz. Peak between 30hz and 31,3hz at 100,2db
Organ with Camille Saint-Saens Symphony no 3 is incredible, same thing with Christian Lane 1st prize - CAnadian International Organ competition 2011. I don't listen to Lane's work very often but it worth a try.

Attachment:
23 juillet bass no smooth.jpg
23 juillet bass no smooth.jpg [ 31.45 KiB | Viewed 1836 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
I think I could get the base response more flat, because for now I use the rear wall to boost the response. But at this point I like that bass boost.


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:08 am
Posts: 957
Location: burlington, ON, CA
Did you install insulation inside speaker cabinet as photo shows (rippled/folded) Is the insulation (too much) affecting the bass out the port/cancellation/wool-i-ness/snap/decay/?
Did you use TAD drivers?
I noticed two ports per cabinet. Have you played with port tubes regarding depth? Are you listening near field or far away?


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
I lined the inside with 2" recycled cotton.

I followed the Yuichi Arai's instructions but I never experiment with more or less insulation.

I'm not sure to understand.

-- 23 Jul 2017 22:15 --

Here's my build thread

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=38959

Again I followed the instructions, at that time I didn't have a microphone to test.

All Tad : tl-1603, td-4002 and tn-4.

My couch is ~ 8' from the speakers.


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am
Posts: 202
Location: Chicoutimi, QC, CA
I'm so happy with the improvement I got on bass response today. No more big dip at ~ 70hz!!! One small peak and [ one small dip above 3db (4,2db to be exact) + the drop between 1200 and 2300. This one will be a thought one.

1-6 smoothing
Green = old
Golf = new
Attachment:
Meilleur Aout 08 1-6.jpg
Meilleur Aout 08 1-6.jpg [ 47.34 KiB | Viewed 1624 times ]


Waterfall
Above 25hz everything is below 5ms
Attachment:
Aout 08 Waterfall.jpg
Aout 08 Waterfall.jpg [ 116.52 KiB | Viewed 1624 times ]


RT60, Impulse and Group delay are also good.

Almost done with this room!! Next step will be my bedroom measurements. I doubt I'll do modification,s but since the walls are made of straw, clay and sand it will be interesring to see the results.


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 Post subject: Re: My room measurements
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 1464
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
Can someone explain what RT60,impulse, and group delay are?

_________________
Too much music not enough time..


Last edited by Itsnotluck on Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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